Chat Podcasts Dominate the Airwaves: How Conversational Formats Became the Unstoppable Force of the Podcast Industry

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Conversational Podcasts Dominate the Industry and Will Continue to Do So

In 2024, a unanimous conclusion among podcast industry surveys is clear: Conversational podcasts reign supreme. Despite video's growing appeal (with 33 percent of podcast audiences in the US favoring this format), a surge in advertising expenditure (projected to exceed $4 billion globally), and a consistent annual listener growth of 8 percent, it's the engaging, often spirited, and at times lighthearted nature of conversational podcasts that consistently attracts audiences.

The podcast landscape is rich and ever-changing. Staple programs such as The Joe Rogan Experience, Armchair Expert, and The Read are now integral parts of the cultural conversation. Fresh offerings like I’ve Had It and ShxtsnGigs (which we'll dive into shortly) have quickly amassed significant listenerships. Meanwhile, podcasts like Club Shay Shay consistently generate buzz by embracing contentious topics. A humorous post by @nuffsaidny on X referenced Katt Williams' January visit to the show, where he made a bold prediction about 2024, saying, "All lies will be exposed," highlighting the unpredictable nature of guest appearances and their impact.

"The connection formed is paramount," states Eric Eddings, the vice president of audio at Hartbeat, Kevin Hart's media enterprise, emphasizing the significance of the rapport chat-casts manage to create with their audience.

In 2014, Eric Eddings, together with Brittany Luse, initiated For Colored Nerds, a weekly discussion platform focusing on pop culture, racial issues, and current affairs (it's worth noting that I was a guest on the show in 2017). Following their work on Nerds, Eddings joined Gimlet Media. There, he co-hosted The Nod alongside Luse and contributed as a producer to the shows Undone and Habitat, prior to his transition to SiriusXM. Presently, Eddings is at the helm of podcast development at Hartbeat. According to him, the essence of the podcasting world remains unchanged from when he first entered the scene. During a recent video conversation, we delved into the podcast industry's dynamics and its sometimes intricate progressions.

JASON PARHAM: What's behind the surge in popularity of chat-casts?

ERIC EDDINGS: Several factors come into play. To put it bluntly, numerous companies were looking for strategies to reduce their spending on programming. Creating narrative podcasts comes with a high cost. They demand significant initial funding, after which there's an effort to maximize their success if they manage to connect with listeners. Moreover, many companies have encountered challenges in launching these kinds of projects due to the ongoing difficulties within the entertainment media sector.

Is this a matter concerning finances?

Podcasts centered around conversation are somewhat simpler to experiment with, launch, and produce on a weekly basis. There's been a noticeable shift in that direction. These are the broader trends affecting the industry. However, this approach does somewhat overlook aspects of the dialogue.

Could you elaborate on

Podcasting, while not a new phenomenon, has witnessed an influx of diverse groups taking interest in it in novel ways. The platform has become more recognized and embraced by various individuals, including comedians and social media influencers. Initially, during the early stages of the pandemic, there was a surge in people wanting to launch their own podcasts. However, the trend has evolved, with individuals now seeking out partnerships and using podcasting as a creative outlet for their ideas. The format of podcasting is highly adaptable, promoting a culture of creativity and innovation. This ease of experimentation is particularly suited to the conversational nature of podcasts, where engaging dialogue is key.

Does the abundance of podcast conversations seem like a form of stagnation in creativity?

I'd gently challenge that viewpoint.

Kindly.

Delving further back, the essence of podcasting has always revolved around the concept of conversation. Originally, podcasts were primarily a platform for dialogue, with many individuals eager to share stories or express their viewpoints. However, the landscape began to shift significantly in 2014 with the advent of "Serial," marking the emergence of narrative-driven podcasts, or what some might call the era of high-quality storytelling podcasts. This development sparked considerable excitement, attracting a wave of new creators and audiences eager to explore this format. Subsequently, the market witnessed the rise of fictional storytelling through podcasts. With the onset of the pandemic, there was a notable increase in celebrity-led interview shows. Today, the foundational chat format continues to underpin this evolving medium.

Understood.

Hartbeat has launched a unique chat music podcast titled "One Song," co-hosted by the comedic talent Diallo Riddle and the multifaceted Luxury, who brings his experience as a producer, DJ, and music connoisseur to the table. The duo dives deep into the world of music, discussing not just the surface-level appeal but delving into the complexities and nuances of the tracks they explore. They share their personal reactions, draw parallels to other music, and map out the interconnectedness of various sounds, infusing the podcast with a fresh vibrancy. This approach elevates "One Song" by blending the narrative depth of podcasts like "Song Exploder" with a lively, engaging twist. While expressing admiration for "Song Exploder," the creators believe their podcast introduces a novel flair to the genre. Additionally, outside of Hartbeat's offerings, there's "Beautiful Anonymous" hosted by Chris Gethard, which, at its core, is a conversational podcast where Gethard engages with anonymous callers. These discussions can range from problem-solving to simply chatting about whatever is on the caller's mind, emphasizing the importance of dialogue and human connection.

Somewhat reminiscent of a classic radio phone-in program.

Certainly. It's become quite common to observe programs where hosts attempt to deliver provocative statements in hopes of their content becoming widely shared online. This trend has increased as more individuals venture into this domain. However, quality content invariably rises above the competition, despite the crowded field. Independent podcasts, which don’t seem to emerge from a formal corporate strategy, continue to achieve recognition. A prime example of this is ShxtsnGigs. They've faced some challenges lately, but it appears they're gaining a better grasp of navigating the industry and engaging with their listeners more effectively.

They ventured too near the solar flames. [James Duncan and Fuhad Dawodu, the duo behind ShxtsnGigs, faced a barrage of backlash for dismissively chuckling at a derogatory remark aimed at Black women in a recent conversation.]

The tale of Icarus offers valuable lessons for all of us. However, it's also worth noting the role that community engagement, discussions, and word-of-mouth played in amplifying its impact. Such dynamics significantly contributed to its rapid spread. The importance of maintaining a strong connection with your audience cannot be overstated. If you fail to keep in tune with your audience's expectations, you will surely hear feedback from them, highlighting the need for adjustment.

Famous personalities have completely taken over the platform. Club Shay Shay was a significant topic of discussion throughout the year. However, numerous podcasts focused on celebrities often come across as self-indulgent endeavors.

Numerous famous personalities have ventured into the podcasting world, and it's possible that not all of them are suited for it. In fact, there might be quite a few who are better off steering clear of it. However, when it comes to podcasts that successfully captivate listeners, the key often lies in high-quality, creative production. Occasionally, this involves a celebrity. Yet, it's undeniable that celebrity influence continues to dominate across the board.

Indeed, the essence of American culture is deeply intertwined with the

Therefore, it seems logical that this would be a primary focus. It's a significant factor encouraging investment. Moreover, amidst this, there's still a considerable diversity observed.

I'd like to revisit a point you made before. Ten years back, in 2014, when Serial was launched, it appeared to herald a move towards storytelling in the sector. However, that transition never really took place. What went wrong?

Many businesses aimed to outpace their competition by focusing heavily on narrative-driven content. Their approach was, "Let's saturate our audience with storytelling." This strategy, however, risked producing content for the sake of content, without considering the audience's preferences for storytellers or tales. They overlooked the importance of sharing stories that engage listeners emotionally, prompt them to invest, and inspire action. Shows that embraced these principles succeeded. Regardless of one's opinion on Serial, for instance, it centered on the compelling quest for justice, posing a question that demanded attention.

However, not all individuals managed to accomplish this.

Some individuals might have overlooked the bigger picture by focusing too much on capitalizing on what was successful, aiming to maximize their gains from it. Additionally, a challenge presented itself in the form of the brevity of these offerings. Typically, narrative podcasts span between eight to 10 episodes, maybe stretching to 12. However, what many listeners—particularly those who were just discovering podcasting as an appealing medium—desired was the opportunity to forge a more profound connection. They wished to spend more time immersed in the content. Once a story concluded, they found themselves back at square one, searching for something new. There's a segment of the audience that craves shows with which they can develop a deeper bond, shows that become a part of their daily lives. For instance, knowing they'll receive their dose of Higher Learning twice a week, or tuning into Brittany [Luce] on It’s Been a Minute, provides a sense of routine. They might listen during their commute or while running errands. This regular engagement, this connection, is invaluable.

That idea hadn't crossed my mind. We often view specific television programs as must-see events, so it's logical that podcasts could gain from being seen in a similar light.

Thus, if narrative podcasts represent the most extensive form of this medium, individuals repeatedly face the challenge of discovering quality content, keeping up to date, and staying engaged in the conversation, which can prove to be difficult.

Certainly, there are potential strategies for the medium to adapt and rise to the occasion. However, it's understandable why narrative storytelling hasn't soared in popularity as anticipated. Moreover, the wave of strikes within the entertainment sector in recent years has led companies to tread carefully regarding the narratives they choose to pursue and the financial commitments they engage in. This caution has unfortunately resulted in numerous compelling stories being left untold or losing the opportunity to be shared at all.

In a somewhat surprising yet foreseeable twist, podcasts have evolved to include visual elements. It appears that for a podcast to thrive in the current landscape, having a YouTube channel has become almost a necessity. Would you agree with this observation?

Short-form videos, like those on TikTok, reels, and clips, are increasingly becoming a main way we interact with each other. It's not surprising then that these formats are now being utilized to discuss and promote podcasts. Spotify, for instance, is pouring resources into this area, and Sirius is integrating video content through their application. It's clear that there is a demand for this type of content among listeners. My only concern is that this shift towards video might make it harder for new podcasters, who are interested in focusing on deep, audio-based discussions, to enter the scene.

What steps can the industry take to progress further?

The podcast sector must embrace the commitment to fostering innovation. It's essential to support those creators eager to experiment and introduce fresh concepts. Innovation doesn't necessarily require the inclusion of artificial intelligence to be impactful.

The financial dynamics within the industry remain in a phase of adjustment. There has been a diverse array of investments observed. Initially, there was a surge in shows backed by celebrities. Currently, while those large-scale agreements have diminished, a variety of initiatives still persists. The market is consistently flooded with an excess of content, though "flooded" might carry unintended negative implications. The challenge lies in devising strategies that highlight the widest spectrum of content available, as this directly influences the revenue generation of these programs.

The focus is on identifying strategies to amplify and promote emerging talents, ensuring they gain visibility. This involves enhancing their ability to be discovered, generate revenue, and distribute their work. There is a necessity for a deeper examination of the integration of these various systems.

What will be the effect of artificial intelligence on the future of business sectors, or is it merely an illusion?

Currently, from my perspective, AI hasn't yet become a dominant force or a major basis for the content we produce at Hartbeat. It's important to note, however, that AI transcription has revolutionized our processes. It has significantly simplified our content editing and management tasks. Nevertheless, in the wider industry, there's still considerable debate regarding the integration and effectiveness of more significant technological advancements. Given that our medium thrives on genuine human interaction and dialogue, I believe it will remain challenging for technology to substantially rival this aspect.

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