The Evolution of Ring: Balancing Security Innovation with Privacy Concerns in Our Digital Neighborhoods

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Over the past decade, Ring's surveillance devices have significantly evolved. Introduced to the market 11 years ago, the brand's video doorbells and surveillance cameras have become ubiquitous watchers over front yards, entryways, and other outdoor spaces. Acquired by Amazon, Ring has navigated through various challenges, including privacy issues, security vulnerabilities, accusations of promoting vigilantism, and its close ties with police forces. Despite these hurdles, the brand's growth has not wavered, with more than 10 million devices installed. Today, Ring cameras are a common presence, capturing the comings and goings of residents, their families, and any passersby across both cities and suburbs.

This results in an overwhelming amount of footage to comb through when you're on the lookout for crucial moments, such as confirming a package delivery or determining when your children departed for soccer practice. This is precisely why Ring cameras, among various other consumer devices currently on the market, are being enhanced with artificial intelligence features. The latest software update from Ring allows users to pinpoint exact instances recorded by their cameras.

This week, Paresh Dave, a senior writer at WIRED, returns to the podcast to discuss the transformation of Ring. He delves into how these security cameras have become almost omnipresent in the security technology landscape and explores what's next, especially with the integration of artificial intelligence.

Episode Summary

Explore Paresh's article on the latest AI enhancements for Ring. Check out WIRED's recommendations for top indoor and outdoor surveillance cameras. Learn about the extensive information Ring gathers from its customers and the reasons behind our decision to pause our endorsement of Ring cameras for the past few years.

Suggestions

Paresh suggests subscribing to Sling TV by Dish for live sports viewing. Mike suggests looking for fake security cameras for installation in case your landlord demands the setup of a security camera. Lauren suggests watching the streaming series Nobody Wants This and Killing Eve, both available on Netflix.

You can follow Paresh Dave on social media under the handle @peard33. For Lauren Goode, reach out to @LaurenGoode. Michael Calore's contact is @snackfight@heads.social. Direct your main inquiries to @GadgetLab. Boone Ashworth, who produces the show, is accessible at @booneashworth. The theme music comes courtesy of Solar Keys.

Listening Guide

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Transcript Notice: Please be aware that this transcript was generated by an automatic process and may include inaccuracies.

Lauren Goode: Mike.

Michael Calore: Addressing Lauren.

Lauren Goode: How many security cameras have you installed in your house?

Michael Calore: You're asking if it's similar to the segment on Call Her Daddy? Specifically targeting my sofa?

Lauren Goode: Actually, I was referring to surveillance cameras.

Michael Calore: What's the word I use to feel secure?

Lauren Goode: Actually, the camera is located at the front of your house.

Michael Calore: Ah, understood. Similar to surveillance cameras then.

Lauren Goode: Absolutely.

Michael Calore: Absolutely not. I don't have a single security camera at the front part of my residence. How about yourself?

Lauren Goode: Absolutely. My landlord actually possesses one.

Michael Calore: Your well-known property owner.

Lauren Goode: We'll save that topic for a different podcast episode. Absolutely.

Michael Calore: So, what's your reaction to your landlord putting a camera on your property?

Lauren Goode: Honestly, I've noticed some odd occurrences captured by those cameras. However, as I wander through San Francisco, it strikes me just how extensively we're being monitored. Our area is littered with cameras. It's as if a science fiction narrative once imagined a dystopian world overrun by widespread spying, envisioned to be the work of a large organization. Yet, in reality, it's simply a collective of consumers who have invested in connected cameras.

Michael Calore: And the major player is Amazon.

Lauren Goode: Amazon stands out as the major player.

Michael Calore: It's important for us to discuss this topic today – the issue concerning individuals' Ring cameras.

Lauren Goode: Absolutely, it's worth discussing for sure.

Michael Calore: Let's go ahead.

[Intro music for Gadget Lab begins]

Lauren Goode: Hello, all. Thanks for joining us at Gadget Lab. My name is Lauren Goode, and I serve as a senior writer for WIRED.

Michael Calore: My name is Michael Calore, and I serve as the director of consumer tech and culture at WIRED.

Lauren Goode: This week, we're delighted to have WIRED's senior writer, Paresh Dave, with us again on the program.

Paresh Dave: Greetings. It seems we have consecutive episodes lined up. Quite thrilling.

Lauren Goode: Was it, though?

Michael Calore: Yes. Actually, we had a week-long break.

Lauren Goode: We took a week off.

Michael Calore: Agreed.

Lauren Goode: Understood.

Michael Calore: During the break week, Paresh joined us as well.

Lauren Goode: Exactly. Paresh, our conversations usually revolve around Google. However, today's focus shifts to Amazon, with a particular emphasis on Ring cameras. Many of you might already be using Ring cameras at your residences. And Paresh, you've been covering the latest developments with Ring cameras, specifically their new search capabilities that seem like they're straight out of a sci-fi movie, albeit a bit alarming. Additionally, later in the program, we'll delve into Ring's overall business model and its widespread adoption in communities across the nation, despite its historically contentious ties with police forces. But to kick things off, Paresh, could you share your experiences testing the new search functionalities on a Ring camera at your place?

Paresh Dave explains that Ring is primarily recognized for its video doorbell, alongside a variety of other security cameras and devices. Before the introduction of a new search functionality, locating a specific recording, such as wanting to review footage of a dog barking loudly at 9:30 the previous evening, was a cumbersome process. Users had to navigate to the video timeline, endlessly scroll to trace back to the desired time, and then meticulously adjust the view to pinpoint the exact moment when the dog was causing a commotion around that 9:30 timeframe.

Currently, Ring has developed an artificial intelligence model that is capable of identifying humans, animals, various weather conditions, scenarios, light conditions, and movements such as running, dancing, and jumping. This allows users to utilize the Ring application similarly to how one might use YouTube's search function, but specifically for searching through their collection of Ring video footage. The interface offers a straightforward and efficient search experience. Users can input their search terms and refine the results by relevance or chronological order, ensuring the results closely match their search criteria.

Michael Calore: When you mention it's mostly relevant, could you elaborate on the areas where it excels and the areas where the search functionality falls short?

Paresh Dave: With only a limited amount of time to test this, I'm hesitant to make sweeping evaluations. However, I did notice it performed admirably in certain areas, such as identifying individuals with backpacks and excelling at detecting dogs. When I input "police," it successfully showed various instances of police vehicles. Yet, I wouldn't rely on it to differentiate between a Mazda and a Kia. Interestingly, when I looked up "blonde woman," it mistakenly showed me golden retrievers alongside women with seemingly darker hair.

Lauren Goode humorously commented, "Consider it a compliment; just admire my rich, luxurious mane, akin to a golden retriever's." Paresh, it seems you also attempted to find certain qualitative descriptors, as described by the Ring CEO, but came up empty-handed in those searches, right? Could you share what those terms were?

Paresh Dave confirmed that during his investigation, he had a conversation with Ring's CEO, Liz Hamren. Hamren disclosed that Ring has implemented restrictions or filters on certain search terms to prevent searches for content that could be considered harmful, inappropriate, or offensive. However, she did not provide specific examples of what these terms might be, leaving Dave to speculate. He surmised that terms potentially sensitive to racial or ethnic identity, such as "Black," "Indian," or "Hispanic," might be restricted. Nonetheless, Dave found it noteworthy that searches for general descriptors like "man" or "woman," or even more specific ones like "blonde woman," were still permissible, yielding results including videos of blonde women among others.

Michael Calore: So, Paresh, the company is not going ahead with facial recognition, right?

Paresh Dave: Indeed.

Michael Calore: This appears to be a functionality that's common among various cameras. For instance, Google's Nest video doorbell has the capability to notify you when Lauren is at your door.

Lauren Goode: Is that genuinely possible?

Michael Calore: Indeed, it possesses the capability to identify faces, distinguishing between what they refer to as friends and family. Did you manage to understand the reasons behind Ring's decision not to implement this feature?

Lauren Goode: Additionally, I request to be classified as an adversary in your household camera system, if you may.

Michael Calore: Allies, adversaries, and kin.

Paresh Dave believes that Ring is aware of the potential interest from consumers in a certain feature, though he's uncertain about the reasons behind the company's decision not to develop it further. According to what Liz Hamren shared with him, the company would consider such a feature if there was significant demand from users. As it stands, it's not a priority for them at the moment. However, Dave points out there are clear benefits, such as quickly being informed when a person of concern appears on camera, or for parents wanting confirmation that their children have arrived home safely without having to wait for a text message. In today's world, where immediate satisfaction is highly valued, the usefulness of this feature is apparent. The exact reasons for its lack of development remain somewhat vague.

Lauren Goode: While I might not share your view on us living in a culture obsessed with immediate satisfaction, just give me a moment. I'm expecting my Turkish bagel to arrive any second from DoorDash. So, moving on, Paresh, it seems that for Ring, this sophisticated search is just the beginning. What do they intend to do moving forward?

Paresh Dave explains that the advancement in video recognition technology naturally leads to the capability for generating notifications, similar to those seen with facial recognition systems. Ring aims to utilize this to inform users about significant events, such as the potential for flooding due to a large storm creating a substantial puddle in their backyard, which is particularly useful when they're not home. Dave also mentions the possibility of receiving alerts about both entertaining and potentially frightening occurrences, like unexpectedly finding a bear in your backyard, which, under normal circumstances, shouldn't happen.

Ring is currently in the process of enhancing its notification features and is looking into creating comprehensive summaries. For instance, as discussed by Liz and myself, it could be appealing to find out about the various dog breeds that have wandered near your home over the past six months, or the frequency at which cars of a specific color have driven by. As it stands, the technology isn't quite adept at distinguishing between, say, a golden retriever and another dog breed, nor can it accurately differentiate a red minivan from a red truck. However, with ongoing improvements, these detailed summaries could become a reality. They might be available in both text and video formats, although that remains to be seen. With its burgeoning AI search functionality, Ring is poised to expand its range of offerings significantly.

Michael Calore: AI appreciates a good recap. Does this feature apply to all cameras and users? Can only subscribers to Ring's paid plans access it, or is it open to all users?

Paresh Dave: Excellent inquiry. Ring has announced compatibility with all camera types, indicating no restrictions in this aspect. However, to access this feature, individuals must subscribe to Ring's Home Pro plan, which is priced at $20 monthly or $200 annually. Currently, Ring offers three levels of membership, with the Home Pro plan being the priciest option available. Ring justifies the cost by explaining that the artificial intelligence (AI) search function demands significant computational and cloud resources. Given the high demand for cloud services at present, Ring is partially passing these expenses onto consumers who desire the search feature, by making it a paid service. Nonetheless, Ring believes that customers, particularly those managing multiple cameras, will find this service valuable enough to invest in.

Lauren Goode: Okay, that provided an excellent summary of Ring's latest AI video search capabilities. Stay with us, because upon our return, we'll delve into Ring's business operations and discuss the contentious connections with police departments we alluded to earlier.

It appears there was

Lauren Goode: Okay. Paresh, we've covered some of the latest features of Ring cameras. Can you tell us about Ring's performance as a company? How widespread are they across the nation? And as we touched on before, Ring is now under Amazon's umbrella, which means it likely has substantial support. However, I'm curious about how Amazon manages Ring's operations within its larger corporate structure.

Paresh Dave: The backstory of Ring is quite fascinating. I've monitored the company's progress for roughly ten years now. Originating in Los Angeles, my interest was piqued while covering startups in the area. The journey of the company is notably captivating. Jamie Siminoff, the inventor and entrepreneur behind Ring, initially aimed to establish a different venture. However, the challenge of not being able to hear his doorbell while working in his garage led him to create the video doorbell concept in 2011, marking the inception of Ring. Siminoff was motivated by the idea of preventing crime, to the extent that he would cover the insurance deductible for users who experienced theft with a Ring camera installed. He found that by promptly responding to his Ring camera, he could deter potential burglars.

He even claimed to have never witnessed a more effective crime deterrent than the video doorbell, a bold claim made in 2017. However, just a year later, Amazon acquired the company for a hefty sum of one billion dollars. Ring was already a user of AWS, establishing a pre-existing connection between the two entities. Amazon nurtured Ring without significant alterations to its operations. This approach took a turn at the beginning of last year when Liz Hamren assumed the CEO position, succeeding Jamie Siminoff. With a background in Xbox and Oculus, Liz shifted the company's focus from its original crime-reduction narrative to one centered on alleviating anxiety, a strategic move likely driven by specific motivations.

Lauren Goode: Easing stress. That's quite intriguing.

Michael Calore: Indeed.

Lauren Goode: The question of who requires SSRIs—

Michael Calore: Regarding the ownership of a Ring camera.

Lauren Goode: … if you possess a Ring camera?

Michael Calore highlights his extensive reporting on the Neighbors App, utilized by individuals owning Ring cameras to engage with their local community. A notable feature within this app, named Request for Assistance, enables police departments to communicate directly with app users. They can request footage by notifying users of recent incidents in their vicinity, encouraging them to share their camera recordings. This functionality streamlines the process for law enforcement, allowing them to collect video evidence without the need for a warrant, which is the conventional method of obtaining such footage. Typically, officers would have to request footage directly from the owner, who could then demand a warrant if they chose not to comply voluntarily.

Therefore, the Neighbors App wasn't exactly bypassing any legal procedures; rather, it was simplifying the process for videos to be shared with law enforcement. Consequently, Ring faced intense criticism from major privacy groups.

Lauren Goode: Absolutely, organizations dedicated to civil liberties.

Michael Calore: Indeed, organizations like the Electronic Frontier Foundation and WIRED were among those who criticized them for their actions.

Lauren Goode: In our evaluations of the Ring cameras, we made it a point to include this crucial information, essentially alerting you to be mindful of the implications that come with purchasing a Ring camera.

Michael Calore: It's not that collaborating with law enforcement agencies is necessarily wrong, but the close ties between a company serving consumers and the surveillance apparatus tend to unsettle many individuals.

Lauren Goode: Moreover, groups advocating for civil rights expressed discontent as they believed it paved the way for increased instances where individuals could be wrongly linked to local criminal activities.

Michael Calore: Certainly, particularly when you're an unfamiliar individual.

Paresh Dave mentioned that upon assuming her role, Liz Hamren, the CEO, decided to scale back the collaborations that Ring had established with law enforcement agencies. The company no longer actively supports the transfer of video footage between its users and police. However, if law enforcement approaches Ring with a legally obtained warrant or in situations deemed emergencies, requesting access to videos, Ring might comply by providing the requested footage, assuming it's within their capacity to do so. Users have the option to activate end-to-end encryption for their videos, though it's speculated that few have taken advantage of this feature. Additionally, those who wish to utilize Ring's new search functionality would be unable to do so with end-to-end encryption enabled.

However, Ring has begun to distance itself from its prior association and interactions with law enforcement. In their current advertisements, there's a notable focus on cute cat clips and playful footage, reminiscent of the type of content found on America's Funniest Home Videos.

Michael Calore: Indeed, they do have a program, don't they? It's called Ring Nation, with Wanda Sykes as the host. Essentially, it showcases viral clips captured by individuals' security cameras.

Paresh Dave questioned, "Is it still in their possession? Uncertain."

Lauren Goode: Is that actually the case?

Paresh Dave: I'm aware it existed. I'm unsure if it's still available.

Michael Calore believes that the sole purpose behind producing exactly 150 episodes was to ensure the show's eligibility for syndication, allowing it to be broadcast endlessly on TV channels globally.

Lauren Goode: It truly feels like we're residing in a dystopian reality.

Michael Calore: Absolutely, and what's fascinating is this aspect of Ring's marketing approach. They're not just focusing on reducing stress and portraying themselves as a more approachable brand, but they're also positioning themselves as a platform that can boost your chances of going viral. By offering features that allow you to easily search for and share content captured by your camera, they're essentially saying you can use your security device to generate viral content. It's almost surreal to articulate this concept.

Lauren Goode: Indeed, there are some incredible videos captured by Ring devices. Personally, I've saved a few from back when my cat was just a kitten, engaging in all sorts of silly antics. The night vision feature is particularly fascinating, especially for capturing moments of your pets moving about in the dark. It turns them into these eerie figures with glowing eyes, darting across your living room.

Paresh Dave: Reflecting on recent search experiences, I've noticed a kind of unexpected delight in the results. This happens because sometimes the search functionality isn't perfect, leading to surprising discoveries. For example, when I looked up 'bat' hoping to find footage of myself swinging a baseball bat on camera, I ended up finding videos of a group of raccoons that regularly wandered past the camera at night. It was a total surprise to me that these raccoons were even around, much less captured on camera so frequently.

Lauren Goode: They have a spirited attitude.

Paresh Dave: Honestly, it doesn't really impact how I act. The idea of someone going through garbage bins doesn't bother me much. I'm not sure it eases any worries I might have; in fact, knowing that raccoons are constantly prowling around might actually make me more anxious. However, I can picture a scenario where, if I resided in a more thrilling location and captured footage of a bear in my backyard, sharing that on TikTok could potentially make me quite popular.

In essence, Ring could be considered merely another diversion. I don't intend to dismiss its value entirely, especially since the video doorbell aspect is quite innovative and intriguing, much like when Jamie Siminoff initially introduced it. However, in certain respects, Ring bears similarity to TikTok.

Lauren Goode: Paresh, the next time you're experimenting with the AI search tool, could you try looking up something specific for me? I'm curious about raccoon paws, specifically their tiny hands. Would you be able to zoom into an image, say about 100 times, and keep enhancing the details of those small paws, kind of like they do in CSI?

Paresh Dave: If it were only that straightforward.

Lauren Goode: Returning to the topic of Ring's operations, Amazon often acquires smaller tech companies, and typically, these companies continue to operate under their original brand without much change, unless they are entirely shut down. Eero serves as another instance of this practice. Ring retains its own branding as well. My understanding is that Ring's headquarters remain in Los Angeles, right? So, what's the current mode of operation for Ring, and how successful is it as a business entity?

Paresh Dave recounted his experience from 2017, highlighting that Ring was not making a profit at the time. The company lacked formal budgets because the CEO then was opposed to the idea, advocating for a simple approach to avoid unnecessary spending. He even expected employees to take care of cleaning tasks themselves. However, Ring's financial status has seen a significant turnaround, now reporting profits. According to Liz Hamren, this achievement comes without any financial caveats, following standard accounting practices. Dave believes this reflects the value people place on security and the sense of connection provided by Ring's products, including their cameras and security systems.

Indeed, it appears this matter hasn't garnered much attention. However, Liz is in charge of a collection that encompasses additional Amazon-affiliated ventures, Blink cameras being among them. Hence, Amazon markets not just Ring cameras but Blink cameras too, which might seem bewildering given the two distinct brands, yet that's the current strategy. Furthermore, Liz oversees the Amazon Sidewalk initiative, which offers Wi-Fi connectivity that some might find unsettling, along with a few other enterprises that have been somewhat bundled together.

Michael Calore: Indeed, Sidewalk is quite insane.

Lauren Goode: Mike, you covered Sidewalk in your piece last year, and we even dedicated a whole episode to it.

Michael Calore explains that essentially, there's a low-energy, wide-range Wi-Fi network accessible to devices recognized as Sidewalk devices, allowing them to connect to the internet beyond the usual Wi-Fi limits. Each installed Ring doorbell shares a portion of your home's Wi-Fi, making it available for various users like delivery trucks, firefighters, and other public service vehicles to locate themselves using these signals emitted from your doorbell. By default, this feature is activated upon installation, requiring manual deactivation by the homeowner. When homeowners are informed that their Ring doorbell is essentially distributing a small fraction (1/80th) of their home Wi-Fi for public use in a secured manner, they are often taken aback, unaware of this functionality. Calore highlights this as a largely unrecognized issue in urban areas across the United States.

Lauren Goode: Cities under Amazon's Influence.

Michael Calore: It's quite astonishing. Similarly, other protocols, like Zigbee, operate in a comparable manner. However, the remarkable part is how the company managed to cover urban America with complimentary Wi-Fi signals for its devices, all without making it widely known or even catching the public's attention.

Lauren Goode: It appears that Ring is here to stay, supported by Amazon and enjoying profitability. This aspect is crucial for consumers who are looking into purchasing home security devices. They prefer not to replace their cameras annually but rather invest in a product that promises longevity. This desire for stability makes Ring the go-to choice for many. Essentially, it seems Ring has emerged victorious in this arena.

Paresh Dave indicates that the company's expansion plans are quite ambitious. He mentions at the start of this discussion how Ring has effectively taken over residential areas. Now, their sights are set on integrating into the commercial sector, specifically targeting small and medium enterprises. In a conversation with Liz Hamren, Dave discovered that Ring is preparing to roll out a subscription service designed with businesses in mind. This is in response to the growing trend of small enterprises utilizing Ring's cameras for surveillance purposes. This upcoming service aims to simplify the management of surveillance across multiple business locations and enhance employee access control. Dave anticipates the introduction of additional, business-specific functionalities. He sees this move as significant, drawing a parallel to Ring's widespread adoption in homes and neighborhoods, suggesting that Ring's influence is poised to grow even further.

Lauren Goode: Okay, thank you once more, Paresh, for giving us the lowdown on Ring. It's been quite fascinating, but don't go anywhere as we'll return shortly to share our suggestions.

I'm sorry,

Lauren Goode: Okay, Paresh, what do you suggest we check out this week?

Paresh Dave: Today, I'm focusing on something that might seem particularly relevant to those in the US. This month, I found myself needing a pay-TV subscription to keep up with the baseball playoffs, despite already having subscriptions to Hulu, Netflix, Max, and a plethora of other services. Eventually, I opted for Sling TV from Dish and was pleasantly surprised. Its user-friendliness and reliability impressed me; I've not encountered a single glitch in the past week. While I haven't attempted to cancel my subscription, it's clear there's no long-term commitment required. Subscriptions are on a month-to-month basis, avoiding the common hassle of being automatically charged for a year after a brief free trial period.

Switching between packages was straightforward since each package offered a distinct channel that I was interested in. Fortunately, the channel I no longer needed was in the package I was leaving. The application operated smoothly, and the personalized suggestions were quite beneficial. While I've experienced issues with Hulu's glitchy advertisements and the sluggish performance of the Max app on my television, Sling TV has consistently performed well both on my smartphone and TV. Honestly, I was genuinely surprised by how effective Sling TV was, regretting not trying it sooner.

However, it's important to note a significant development: DirecTV has recently revealed plans to acquire Dish. While I'm not here to sway the judgment of any antitrust officials who might be tuning into this podcast or going through its content, I believe it's wise for them to consider the remarkable performance of Sling. It would be beneficial for them to ensure that this valuable service isn't negatively affected in a manner that could disadvantage consumers.

Michael Calore: In a legal document known as an amicus brief, Paresh Dave appeals to the Federal Trade Commission, requesting their intervention to ensure his baseball broadcasts remain accessible.

Paresh Dave: Perhaps I'll receive a subpoena.

Michael Calore: Which team do you support?

Paresh Dave discusses the San Diego Padres.

Michael Calore: Regarding the Padres, yes. Essentially, the fathers.

Lauren Goode: Paresh, you also overlooked mentioning that our current CEO was previously the CEO of Sling TV at Dish.

Michael Calore is employed at Condé Nast.

Interview by Lauren Goode with Roger Lynch.

Paresh Dave: My familiarity with him goes back to, I believe, his time at Pandora or around that period.

Lauren Goode: Indeed, he previously worked at Sling, and I believe when he proposed his ideas to Condé Nast, he emphasized promises of no glitches, complimentary trials, and the simplicity of changing subscriptions. He insisted that we aim to keep subscribers at WIRED, with suggestions impeccably customized for the individual. And humorously warned that regulators better not interfere with our operations. Just to clarify, to my knowledge, he never actually made such a proposal. But it's true, we have some common leadership genes with him.

Michael Calore: Pleasant.

Lauren Goode: Appreciate it, Paresh. Mike, what do you suggest?

Michael Calore: My suggestion is quite practical. There have been cases where individuals moving into an apartment find themselves in a situation where their landlord mandates the installation of a Ring doorbell, or it's the landlord who installs it and then requires the tenants to register for the service. Similarly, those purchasing a house in a new development or a condominium might find that their homeowners association insists on the installation of a Ring doorbell. If you find yourself being coerced into setting up a Ring doorbell or any type of video doorbell for security purposes at your residence and you're opposed to the idea, I've got a tip for you. Look up "decoy video doorbell." You can find such items on Amazon, the parent company of both Ring and Blink.

Lauren Goode: It feels like we're just going in circles.

Michael Calore explains that if you search for decoy video doorbells, you'll discover imitations available for purchase. Additionally, on various 3D printing sites where users upload their designs, you can come across a range of fake video doorbells that mimic the appearance of genuine ones. So, if you're facing pressure from your homeowners association, landlord, or someone else in your residence to set up a security device and you're not keen on the idea, opting for a counterfeit version to mount on your door is a viable solution. In the event you're asked to provide video evidence from your doorbell, you have the plausible excuse to say, “My video doorbell wasn't turned on at that moment,” which is technically the truth, sparing you from having to share any surveillance footage.

Lauren Goode: Does that constitute a hindrance to legal proceedings?

Michael Calore expresses his lack of legal expertise before stating his opinion on the absurdity of landlords mandating tenants to install video doorbells. He finds it unreasonable, whether this requirement is specified in the lease agreement or if landlords arbitrarily demand it through a notice. Calore strongly believes it's unfair to force individuals to place surveillance cameras at their entrances.

Lauren Goode: It amuses me that your method of rebelling against authority involves purchasing the item from Amazon.

Michael Calore suggests exploring local 3D printing groups to discover how you can use a 3D printer at a nearby hacker space, allowing you to print what you need instead of shopping on Amazon.

Lauren Goode: Indeed, we're discussing content that aligns with the caliber of WIRED's podcasts.

Michael Calore: It's quite ironic to head to Amazon for the purpose of purchasing a counterfeit Ring.

Lauren Goode: Understood. I appreciate your suggestion.

Michael Calore suggests that they only cost about $10. He recommends not allowing anyone to convince you that spying on each other is necessary, unless that's something you're interested in, in which case, he acknowledges it's okay to do so.

Lauren Goode: Right here, right here.

Michael Calore: As we've made clear during the forty minutes of content you've just experienced, this is a common practice among many. Lauren, what do you suggest?

Lauren Goode: My choice is pretty simple. Has anyone watched Nobody Wants This on Netflix?

Michael Calore: Negative.

Lauren Goode: Paresh, did you get a chance to see it?

Paresh Dave: It's not done yet, but it's planned.

Lauren Goode: Mike, you've been out in the wilderness, staying in a tent without any connectivity for a good few days, meaning you've completely missed out on the buzz about Nobody Wants This. Paresh, I'm eager to hear what you think about it. However, I'm not going to suggest it since it seems to be the talk of the town already. What I will mention is that the leading figure in the series has her own podcast, much like the format of Call Her Daddy, alongside her sister. They even nod to the infamous $60 million Spotify contract from Call Her Daddy within the show. It carries a similar essence, focusing on sexual content. But moving on, what I did was finish watching the series, and I actually saw it twice—once on my own and then again with my family.

Michael Calore: Incredible.

Lauren Goode: Absolutely. It's like a family gathering, enjoying a romantic comedy about a rabbi falling in love with someone who isn't Jewish, and the question of whether they can overcome their differences. Such a charming film. Following that, I got a suggestion to watch Killing Eve, a show you've suggested in the past, right, Mike?

Michael Calore: I disagree.

Lauren Goode: Honestly, I was pretty sure that was your thing.

Michael Calore: No, I can't say that I've ever watched it.

Lauren Goode: Ah, got it.

Michael Calore: Sandra Oh was the subject this time.

Lauren Goode discusses her admiration for "Killing Eve," a series co-created and produced by Phoebe Waller-Bridge, starring Sandra Oh. Despite discovering the show two years after its debut, Goode is captivated by its espionage theme. In the series, Sandra Oh portrays an MI6 office worker who unexpectedly rises in rank due to her insights on a Russian hitwoman. This promotion leads her to officially pursue the assassin, setting the stage for a thrilling and humorously macabre game of chase. Despite the show's violent content, Goode finds it engaging and enjoyable.

Michael Calore: Quite impressive.

Lauren Goode: Indeed, for those who may not be familiar, and if you're an admirer of Sandra Oh, like myself, I truly appreciate Phoebe Waller-Bridge's portrayal of female characters. So, certainly, I'm a supporter.

Michael Calore: Great suggestion.

Lauren Goode: You should definitely check out Nobody Wants This. Mike, it's a must-see for you.

Michael Calore: Absolutely. You have my word. I'll do it.

Lauren Goode: Understood.

Michael Calore: Right after the end of the baseball postseason.

Lauren Goode: Definitely, especially the sports segment. Alright. That was an enjoyable episode. Paresh, it was great having you with us again. Perhaps, we'll see you next week as well. You never know?

Paresh Dave: Enjoyed the experience.

Lauren Goode: Make sure to check out Paresh's article on WIRED.com. Mike, it's always a pleasure having you as an amazing cohost.

Michael Calore: I appreciate it.

Lauren Goode: A big thank you to everyone tuning in. For those who'd like to share their thoughts, while we won't be on Ring video clips for you to find us, that's just a little humor. Seriously, just take a look at the show notes. That’s where you’ll find how to reach us through our social media handles. Our fantastic producer, the local hero Boone Ashworth, makes all of this possible. We're looking forward to connecting with you again next week. Until then, farewell.

[Outro music from Gadget Lab fades in]

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