Reimagining Storytelling in Lego: Morgan Neville’s Creative Journey from Bourdain to Pharrell

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"Morgan Neville, Director of 'Piece by Piece,' Vows to Avoid AI in Future Projects

Morgan Neville is aware that not every discussion will be included in this narrative. With his extensive experience in creating numerous documentaries, he recognizes the importance of omitting certain details to ensure the most compelling stories are conveyed effectively."

Certainly, "Piece by Piece," the latest documentary on Pharrell Williams that falls under the "creative nonfiction" category, exemplifies this. The film is crafted from audio interviews with fellow artists such as Kendrick Lamar and Missy Elliott, a significant portion of which director Neville managed to gather via remote sessions amidst the Covid-19 pandemic restrictions. It presents a visual biography of Williams' extensive career in the music industry, spanning over three decades, uniquely portrayed through Lego animation. Given the high costs associated with animation and the vastness of Williams' career achievements, Neville faced the challenge of having to selectively curate content for inclusion.

"People often compliment the interviews, to which I respond, 'Of course, I only included the best ones,'" he explains, while seated at a diner near Central Park, just days ahead of the New York debut of Piece by Piece. "What they're unaware of are the numerous interviews or segments of interviews that were never utilized. So, there's also that aspect to consider."

What elements are absent? There's an anecdote Williams shared regarding receiving a phone call from Michael Jackson, and the events that unfolded during Justin Timberlake's trip to the Neptunes' recording space in Virginia Beach. The narrative concludes just as Williams begins to delve into more profound details. However, that's the nature of films: their capacity to convey information is limited.

This principle also applied to our conversation. In our session with Neville, WIRED delved into numerous topics, ranging from his upcoming film centered on Paul McCartney's life after The Beatles to his reasons for permanently abandoning artificial intelligence following its use in his documentary on Anthony Bourdain.

Angela Watercutter: What made Pharrell Williams stand out for you? Given your extensive experience in producing documentaries about music, what was it that set him apart from other potential topics?

Morgan Neville: He came to me.

Ah, that's useful then.

The idea of creating a documentary about Pharrell hadn't crossed my mind initially, and to be frank, I was somewhat tired of making documentaries about music. It seemed as though I had already explored that area sufficiently.

Did something about Pharrell inspire you to reconsider creating another music documentary?

I find myself significantly more fascinated by producers than artists. The reason being, artists often share a common narrative and seem to exist within their own confined space. Conversely, producers are tasked with traversing diverse realms, which draws my interest towards them. Furthermore, during our initial encounter, he expressed a desire for me to create a documentary about him, and intriguingly, upon completing it, to recreate it using Lego.

Thus, the concept of Lego was his proposal.

Truthfully, that was the moment that captured my attention.

What challenges were faced in securing a partnership with Lego? Was it necessary to travel to Denmark for this?

No, actually. The film division of Lego is based out of Los Angeles. For the past ten years, it's been managed by Jill Wilfert. When I presented my concept to her, it only took her about five minutes to express her enthusiasm for it, saying, "I'm really fond of this concept." Fortunately, she did, because without her approval, the project would have come to an end right there. There wasn't an alternative iteration of it that would have worked.

Discussing Lego's role, the film made it evident how it complemented Pharrell's synesthetic experiences. He aims to narrate his musical journey, yet he perceives it through a vivid spectrum of colors and forms.

He may not have explicitly stated it, but I believe it's related to his thought process.

For every rhythm and melody, I would ask, "What color do you see in this track?" Even with Kendrick's track "Alright," I questioned, "What color do you envision for this song?" He described it as a blend of cascading blue and gray. Consequently, we animated an entire spectrum, akin to a rainbow, from which Kendrick emerges in the movie. This approach stemmed from his rich imagination.

Did you fail to inform any of the participants that they would be transformed into Lego minifigures, essentially?

We kept it to ourselves.

Have you received any reactions since the discovery? Does Jay-Z reach out to you to express his surprise, saying, "That was unexpected.”

Nearly half a decade ago, we initiated the process of conducting interviews. Additionally, we aimed to keep our project under wraps, especially the fact that it involved creating a Lego movie. My intention was to prevent interviewees from being preoccupied with the idea of being featured in Lego form. Instead, I wanted them to engage in conversation naturally, so I simply mentioned that their interviews would be animated.

Thus, not exactly a falsehood…

A few prominent figures requested to preview their character's appearance before giving their final approval. Therefore, we shared a small 3D model of their character with individuals like Jay or Snoop, and everyone was extremely pleased with the result.

Did they request miniature figures resembling themselves?

I believe everyone desires to have a miniature figure resembling themselves and others.

Daft Punk is also known for being meticulous about their image. Therefore, they reviewed a preliminary version of their character designs, ensuring that the depiction, especially the angles and their helmets, was accurate.

Amusingly, considering the pair already dons helmets reminiscent of Lego headgear.

The head of their creative team visited our workspace. I presented it to him. I walked him through the scenario, and his response was, "We're on board with whatever you need." He was genuinely pleased. So, indeed, who wouldn't embrace the opportunity to be part of Lego in such a manner?

In the film, it appears as if the interviews were conducted in individuals' homes, yet many were actually carried out via Zoom during the pandemic, correct?

Indeed, I completed the majority from the comfort of my couch at home, utilizing Zoom or phone calls. It turned out to be an ideal project for the pandemic period.

Did any technical issues occur?

Ensuring high-quality audio was a priority for me. In some cases, I would arrange for a sound technician to visit the interviewees, or if they had their own setup, that worked as well. One notable instance was with Missy Elliott, who was among the initial interviews conducted during the early stages of the pandemic. At that time, sending a sound technician to her residence wasn't an option. Consequently, I shipped a compact digital recorder to her and provided instructions over the phone on how to set it up.

Could it be that artists such as herself, Jay-Z, or Snoop are more forthcoming because they're not discussing their personal lives, which they might be more inclined to keep private at this stage?

I'm not keen on delving into it extensively, yet it seems to me that there's a tendency towards superficiality in interviews that has become the norm. For instance, the typical, “Pharrell is an incredible artist, and so on.” In a conversation I had with Jon Platt, featured in the film and serving as both the CEO of Sony Publishing and a mentor to Pharrell, I began to explore some of Pharrell's less successful ventures early in our discussion. Platt's response was, “Oh, you're interested in discussing that aspect?”

I expressed my eagerness, saying, "I definitely want to visit that place."

I believe many individuals feel a sense of protectiveness towards Pharrell, primarily because he tends to be quite reserved. When I had the opportunity to interview his spouse and his parents for the very first time, this notion became even more apparent.

In my experience, individuals often hesitate to put someone they admire in an awkward position. However, throughout my years of collaborating with notable figures, I've come to understand that the real embarrassment lies in avoiding deeper issues. Opting for a superficial, light-hearted approach is actually more embarrassing.

Are there any elements that were left out, which you would have included if the movie was three hours long?

Interestingly enough, it seems quite humorous that numerous individuals discuss the extended versions of movies. Personally, I fall into the category of directors whose final versions would actually be more concise.

Certainly, there are additional narratives. For instance, the tales of Gwen Stefani and Justin Timberlake. There was a significant segment dedicated to Justin, however, their accounts largely mirrored each other, focusing on when [Williams] began collaborations with pop musicians around the year 2002. Consequently, I found it necessary to make some cuts.

It seems like Gwen has a slightly larger presence in the film compared to Justin.

An engaging tale unfolded about Justin's journey to Virginia Beach to collaborate with [the Neptunes], highlighting the poor condition of their studio. Additionally, Gwen introduced a feminine vibe to the movie.

There's a significant number of guys.

I believe a portion of it comes down to us requiring a new vibe.

During the film, there were moments when I either felt familiar with the narrative or realized my understanding wasn't as deep as I believed. One instance involved discovering Pharrell's contribution to Wreckx-n-Effect's "Rump Shaker," and the other dealt with "Justified." According to popular belief, the album "Justified" contained tracks that the Neptunes had initially crafted for Michael Jackson.

Many of the tracks Pharrell created were actually intended for other artists. For instance, his solo hit "Frontin’" was originally penned for Prince, a fact mentioned in the documentary; and the chart-topper “Happy” was crafted with CeeLo Green in mind. Additionally, a significant portion of the material he produced for the album Justified was initially envisioned for Michael Jackson, who ultimately passed on it.

There was another segment we included in the movie for a while where Michael reached out to Pharrell. Initially, Pharrell doubted it was actually Michael Jackson, telling him he didn't believe it. To prove his identity, Michael began to sing tunes from Justified. Subsequently, Michael admitted that those were indeed fantastic songs.

Incorporating that element, wouldn't it have unleashed a complex situation? It's not exactly easy to simply skim past Michael Jackson.

From megastars like Beyoncé to Kanye West, despite his collaborations with such high-profile figures, merely skimming the surface of their stories is both unfulfilling and provokes further curiosity, leading to questions like, "What's more to that? Let's delve deeper into that tale." I perceive these instances as narrative pitfalls that are easy to sink into.

Was that a decision you needed to make on your own?

The idea of me conducting an interview with Kanye was never a realistic possibility.

Kanye, along with Puff, another contentious figure, never shared a profound connection with Pharrell.

It's quite remarkable that the release of this film coincides with a period of upheaval in the industry, involving many of those associated with the movie.

The hip-hop community is currently undergoing a much-needed period of reflection and accountability.

Pharrell stands in stark contrast. He has maintained a marriage with the same partner and has been in a relationship with her for two decades. He's never engaged in drug use, abstains from alcohol, and is very focused on maintaining a healthy lifestyle.

Initially, it seemed like a hidden treasure to me. Eventually, it turned into a dangerous pitfall.

Material you wouldn't typically find in music documentaries.

What are the obstacles he faces?

Thus, unlike the conventional tale often associated with rock-and-roll, his narrative doesn't align with that archetype.

How do you navigate this issue? Narratives require conflict, an obstacle to surmount, a profound, hidden reality.

There's a necessity for tension, yet in my view, there was an abundance of drama surrounding creativity, which I believe is genuine.

My guide and skilled author, Peter Guralnick, imparted to me at the beginning that the elements which often seem least captivating in narratives about musicians—such as tales of sexual escapades, substance abuse, and being swindled by their music producers—are in fact quite mundane, given that these experiences are almost universally shared. So, the question arises: what remains intriguing beyond these aspects?

Upon examining my entire filmography, a consistent theme emerges that transcends the superficial. Take, for instance, my most recent project, a documentary on Steve Martin. The focus isn't on celebrity, substance abuse, or any sensational aspect. Steve is the epitome of integrity. Instead, the narrative delves into the struggle of finding and maintaining one's unique creative expression and the quest for continual inspiration.

You just mentioned feeling perhaps finished with music documentaries, yet your upcoming project centers on Paul McCartney. What led you to take on this subject?

Refusing was out of the question. My entire existence has been marked by an unwavering obsession with the Beatles.

This film explores the time following their separation, correct?

This particular narrative, in my opinion, is somewhat of an overlooked tale. Everyone is familiar with the story of the Beatles, especially post-"Get Back."

Indeed, you're continuing from where Peter Jackson previously concluded, nearly.

This movie delves into the aftermath, exploring life after the peak of fame. It poses the question, "What comes after? How do you find yourself when you've been a part of The Beatles since your teens?" The narrative focuses on the formation of Wings, spanning from the moment The Beatles disbanded to the day John Lennon passed away.

That remains a significant chunk of time.

It's often forgotten that Wings was among the top two or three bands in the 1970s. They rarely get mentioned in discussions about 1970s bands, overshadowed by the Beatles' legacy. Yet, when you think about it, alongside Elton John and the Eagles, Wings were key players, with maybe Led Zeppelin in the mix too. It offers a unique perspective on that era's music scene.

Shifting gears slightly, my mind wandered to McCartney's adoption of artificial intelligence to resurrect an old Beatles track, which reminded me of the time AI was utilized for Anthony Bourdain's voice in Roadrunner. Did the public's response catch you off guard?

The discovery caught me off guard. Initially, it seemed like a hidden gem, but it quickly turned into an unexpected challenge. I often find myself deeply embodying the essence of my subjects. In a way, you could say I'm a method director. For instance, the essence of Mr. Rogers permeated every part of the film about him, mirroring his very being. Similarly, the essence of Pharrell was woven throughout Piece by Piece. Tony embodied the quintessential rebel spirit, always pushing boundaries and embracing a punk rock mentality. His approach to editing No Reservations was all about dismantling conventions, urging us to "come on, break down the wall." I aimed to preserve his distinctive voice in the film. My thought was, "This would be an interesting element to include, and it would make for engaging conversation later on." It wasn't something I was trying to conceal.

Certainly. It makes for an engaging story during the media circuit.

At this point, everything went south. Our current standing with AI now seems almost old-fashioned.

Do you think you were the early warning signal?

Certainly. Numerous individuals informed me that there were similar documentary endeavors underway, which all responded in some manner; they either altered their approach or added extensive disclaimers to their work. This had widespread implications.

What's your current perspective on it?

It's common for individuals to manipulate statements, a practice often referred to as Franken-biting. This technique is used to alter what people appear to say. In reality, I believed we remained truer to Tony's original message.

The regrettable aspect is the significant effort and passion we invested in the movie. The dedication was not just mine but shared by all of us, meticulously examining every phrase Tony uttered and penned. We held him in high esteem and cared deeply. However, the public's perception turned into, "Oh, they simply fabricated things." That couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, we were striving to do just the opposite. Yet, this misinterpretation is all too common in today's social media landscape.

I've been quite intrigued by this topic, especially considering your perspective on it in light of recent events. Given the strikes surrounding AI and its prominence in current discussions, I'm curious to hear your reflections on the matter, especially as someone who was directly involved.

I haven't incorporated artificial intelligence into any of my projects since then.

I had the same question in mind.

In [Piece by Piece], Carl Sagan mentions, "Pharrell," emphasizing that, with the consent of his late wife, their goal was to have him utter "Pharrell" without resorting to artificial intelligence. Instead, they attempted to assemble the word from syllables [he genuinely spoke].

Therefore, I've deliberately stayed away from it ever since, and I completely understand the apprehension.

Correct.

I hold a strong concern for the issue of misinformation.

In this election, it's evident how these mechanisms are being exploited.

Without a doubt

Conversely, the established guidelines for narrating stories can sometimes feel restrictive.

Throughout history, moviemakers have consistently embraced the latest technologies to enhance their storytelling. It's undeniable that generative AI and similar advancements offer promising opportunities for innovative narrative techniques.

Correct.

The amusing contradiction is that I'm quite the technophobe. I don't gravitate towards technology. For the most part, I stick to traditional ways.

It seems that individuals are gradually beginning to share this perspective.

The progress has evolved to a point that it's become significantly more intimidating. I understand that. What I want to make clear is that I'm not the leading advocate for continually advancing the boundaries of generative AI. However, I do believe that exploring novel methods of storytelling is beneficial.

This is what you accomplished with Piece by Piece.

Bit by bit, the work stirs up its own set of controversies, with individuals always eager to categorize it or confine it within certain boundaries.

Due to the abundance of Lego pieces?

The debate stems from its categorization – is it truly a documentary? Documentaries adhere to specific guidelines. Personally, I prefer to describe it as creative nonfiction.

Indeed, the process of creation amid the Covid pandemic meant relying less on conventional methods.

It had slipped my mind until it was recently mentioned. In fact, we included a note at the film's conclusion, which was unearthed and published by someone. It essentially stated, though I'm simplifying, that not all aspects of the film are entirely precise. For example, Pharrell never actually traveled to outer space.

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