Breaking the Bark-rier: AI-Enabled Collars Aim to Translate Pet Thoughts, But Can They Truly Understand Our Furry Friends?

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Every Gadget Seems to Have a Voice

It's a common desire to communicate with our pets, whether it's attempting to engage them in conversation or simply wishing they'd heed our calls. This has led numerous innovative companies to believe that technology may hold the key to overcoming the barriers to pet-human communication. Enter the era of AI-powered collars for dogs and cats, designed to analyze and convey what our pets might be trying to tell us. However, the catch with these gadgets is that our furry friends aren't actually participating in the dialogue. The collars make educated guesses about the pets' thoughts and speak on their behalf. This scenario is less reminiscent of the talking dog collar from the film Up and more akin to yelling at a chatbot affixed to your pet's neck. All the while, your pet might just be puzzled about the origin of this unfamiliar voice.

Later in the program, we delve into the peculiar new trends in AI technology infiltrating our daily lives and discuss if they're genuinely enhancing our interactions.

This week signifies the conclusion of the Gadget Lab podcast as we know it. However, it's not goodbye for good. We're planning a revitalized version of the podcast to come back shortly. Lauren and Michael are set to reprise their roles as hosts, joined by an additional third co-host. Alongside, we'll introduce a new name for the podcast and shift our focus slightly in terms of what we cover.

Episode Details

Keep an eye on this channel for the latest episode release on October 31! Dive into Boone's articles featuring conversational pet collars and the AI-driven Companion pendant. Explore Lauren's insights into the complexities of AI equipment. Stay alert to the increasing integration of AI in daily life. For everything related to gadgets, stay updated with WIRED's extensive coverage of tech products.

Suggestions

Boone suggests enjoying the rain. Lauren suggests going for walks. Mike suggests checking out KEXP's YouTube channel for videos of music performances in their Seattle studio.

You can connect with Boone Ashworth on social platforms, but he prefers that you send any story ideas directly to his email at boone@wired.com, given his ongoing role as a reporter at WIRED. You can follow Lauren Goode at @LaurenGoode on Twitter. Michael Calore is active on Mastodon under the handle @snackfight@heads.social. For general inquiries, reach out to the primary contact point at @GadgetLab. Boone Ashworth (@booneashworth) took charge of producing the show, with Solar Keys providing the theme music.

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Transcript Notice: Please be aware that this transcript was generated by an automated system and might include inaccuracies.

Michael Calore: Lauren, it's your

Lauren Goode: Mike.

Michael Calore: For a long time, the program has been known as Gadget Lab.

Lauren Goode: Yes, indeed.

Michael Calore: However, I do have an important question to ask you.

Lauren Goode: Alright.

Michael Calore: When was the most recent occasion you pondered over gizmos, or when did you last acquire an item that falls into the category of a gadget?

Lauren Goode: It's been ages since I last purchased any new gadgets. Well, that's not completely accurate, as I did pick up some small lavalier microphones for video purposes recently. However, when it comes to everyday devices, it's been quite a while. Nowadays, I don't really view our digital existence through the lens of physical gadgets. Instead, my focus has shifted significantly towards software.

Michael Calore: I share the same opinion. Essentially, I purchase quite a bit of musical equipment, though I wouldn't classify them as gadgets per se. Moreover, I believe the term 'gadget' doesn't accurately reflect our work since our focus is on consumer technology and products. This encompasses items such as sneakers, insect repellent, and sunblock.

Lauren Goode: Indeed. There was a time when gadgets were primarily seen as practical tools, serving a clear utility. However, today, we find ourselves completely immersed in technology.

Michael Calore: Alright. Certainly. And I see this as an excellent chance to make some alterations.

Lauren Goode: Could you clarify that?

Michael Calore: Essentially, it's not just about altering our perspective on devices or envisioning what the next generation of consumer items could look like. I believe we really need to revamp the Gadget Lab itself.

Lauren Goode: Ah, I understand your point now. If that's the direction the future is taking us, then that's the path we'll follow.

Michael Calore: Absolutely, I share the same opinion.

Lauren Goode: Right. So, does this fall into the category of 'some personal news' moments, when individuals in the media are gearing up to share an announcement and they post 'some personal news' on Twitter?

Michael Calore: Indeed, it is. Yet, we ought to conclude on a high note with an impressive gadget.

Lauren Goode: That seems odd. Let's go for it.

Michael Calore: Absolutely, let's go for it.

[Introductory music for Gadget Lab begins]

Michael Calore: Hello, everyone. Greetings from Gadget Lab. My name is Michael Calore, and I serve as WIRED's director of consumer technology and culture.

Lauren Goode: My name is Lauren Goode. I hold a position as a senior writer within the business section at WIRED.

Michael Calore: This week, we're also accompanied by Boone Ashworth, a staff writer at WIRED. If his name rings a bell, it's likely because you're a regular listener of this show and have heard his name at the conclusion of each episode. He's not just a contributor; he also produces the show, so we're grateful for his efforts. Welcome, Boone.

Boone Ashworth: Greetings. At this moment, you're listening to the sound of my voice

Michael Calore: It's great to have you back with us on the program.

Boone Ashworth: I appreciate it.

Michael Calore: Boone, your presence on the show today serves a dual purpose. Firstly, you've penned an article for WIRED this week that delves into the next wave of electronic devices and AI-integrated gadgets. Among these innovations is an oddly fascinating pet collar that enables owners to engage in verbal interactions with their pets, such as dogs or cats, and it seems to actually work. We'll explore that topic, as well as discuss the various wearable and portable gadgets like pendants, badges, and compact assistants that tech firms are currently developing, aiming to understand the direction in which this technology is evolving.

Additionally, another key reason for having you on the program today is, as previously noted, you serve as the producer of our show. For roughly five years, you've been the mastermind controlling the audio mixing at WIRED's studio, and today marks the final episode of the Gadget Lab. We're planning to take a break from Gadget Lab and then relaunch the program after it has aired, what, around 662 or 663 episodes?

Boone Ashworth: Number 62, is that correct? Yes, it's 62

Michael Calore: Astonishing.

Lauren Goode: Six hundred sixty-two.

Michael Calore: Number 662.

Lauren Goode: And Mike, have you attended each one?

Michael Calore: No, not every one of them.

Lauren Goode: The majority.

Michael Calore: Indeed, I joined around episode 20.

Lauren Goode: Incredible.

Michael Calore: Indeed.

Lauren Goode: Since 2018 is when I joined. And Boone, you truly embarked on an epic quest to become our producer amidst the pandemic.

Boone Ashworth: Absolutely, it was a blast. Do you all recall that moment?

Michael Calore emphasizes that their departure is not permanent as they have an upcoming show in the pipeline. He and Lauren will continue their roles as hosts, this time accompanied by an additional team member, bringing the total to three voices engaging in weekly discussions. This new program will be broadcast on the same channel, ensuring that current listeners can seamlessly transition without any additional steps. They can expect a sneak peek through a trailer next week, followed by the premiere episode at October's end. This new venture will tread familiar territory and spotlight two familiar faces.

Lauren Goode: Who are the individuals over there?

Michael Calore: That refers to both of us.

Lauren Goode: Ah, I see. Michael attempted to dismiss me, yet I refused to stray too far.

Michael Calore: I absolutely wouldn't.

Boone Ashworth: Is that the reason you're shackled to the desk?

Lauren Goode: Absolutely not.

Michael Calore: Boone, as you graduate, you're being freed from the constraints of this studio's mixing desk to embark on a journey of full-time writing at WIRED.

Boone Ashworth: Absolutely. Indeed, the program is expected to maintain its familiar sound and feature the usual guests. The only difference will be a new spectral presence lurking in the corner, adding its essence to the mixtape.

Lauren Goode: Despite our focus on technology, given that we're part of WIRED, our show will continue to delve into contemporary and future tech topics. However, expect a fresh perspective on themes that are currently captivating the tech audience. Rest assured, Michael and I will remain your hosts.

Michael Calore: Indeed, we'll remain present.

Lauren Goode: We'll continue to be here week after week. Outside of the podcast studio, we'll keep chatting and throwing banter around, essentially creating podcast content without officially producing one.

Michael Calore: Indeed.

Lauren Goode: Absolutely. Plus, there's this new individual coming on board who I'm really thrilled about.

Michael Calore: Likewise.

Lauren Goode: We'll wrap it up.

Michael Calore: Introducing our third co-host.

Lauren Goode: Keep following this channel.

Michael Calore: Affirmative.

Lauren Goode: Stay right there.

Boone Ashworth: Absolutely.

Michael Calore: The excitement is in the anticipation. It's absolutely a reason to keep following us. Boone, it's become clear to me that you've been the engineer and producer for more than half of our episodes.

Boone Ashworth: Roughly two to three hundred.

Michael Calore: The thing is, if we've reached 663 episodes, it's not like we were churning them out weekly from the get-go. Initially, our schedule was more sporadic, maybe bi-weekly. But we significantly increased our frequency just before you joined us as our producer, settling into a weekly rhythm.

Lauren Goode: I believe that's incorrect.

Michael Calore: Indeed.

Lauren Goode: I made it a point to be present weekly.

Michael Calore: Indeed. However, the initial 200 episodes or so were somewhat disorganized.

Lauren Goode: Ah, I see.

Michael Calore: It was only after David Pierce joined as the cohost that he suggested, "We should make this a weekly thing." To which I reluctantly agreed, saying, "Alright, if we must."

Lauren Goode: Exactly. Subsequently, Nick Thompson approached me, jokingly saying, "How about you take over for David Pierce?" Just to clarify, that was a joke. What really happened was David departed, and then Nick reached out to me, offering the opportunity to co-host the Gadget Lab.

Michael Calore: In any case, it's been quite the odyssey, and you've accompanied us for about half the duration.

Boone Ashworth: My first episode was number 407, so you can do the calculations from there.

Michael Calore: The calculation comes out to fifty percent.

Boone Ashworth: Absolutely, of course.

Lauren Goode: Absolutely. This is an instance where, incidentally, when I mentioned before about journalists posting about "some personal news" before revealing they've landed a new position, we're truly delving into insider territory at the moment. It's as though we're saying, "The audience must be interested in the effort we've invested in this podcast."

Michael Calore: However, we should really… Let's proceed, alright.

Lauren Goode: How about we record an episode?

Boone Ashworth: Perform a presentation.

Michael Calore: Time to start our program.

Lauren Goode: Let's get started.

Michael Calore: Time for our usual program. This being the final episode, let's make it memorable with a spectacular showcase of gadgets.

Lauren Goode: I believe it's time we cease expressing that.

Michael Calore: Reflecting on our most recent journey… What if we consider this? For our final orbit of this year, right here in this-

Boone Ashworth: I refuse to meet my end.

Michael Calore: Aboard the vessel known as Gadget Lab.

Boone Ashworth: You're not ending my life. I'll continue to exist. I just won't be present in this space any longer.

Lauren Goode: Boone is feeling, "Thank goodness."

Boone Ashworth: I don't have a terminal illness. Goodness.

Michael Calore: Farewell to you. It's a goodbye we have to say twice. Now that you're here with us on the mic, it's time to dive into your specialty. Covering AI-driven tech devices has been your focus at WIRED, and it's been a hectic year for you in that realm.

Boone Ashworth: Odd how things turn out like that, isn't it?

Michael Calore: There's been a buzz around the new products you've covered recently. The most recent highlight is this pet collar. Can you share details about it? What's its name? Which company is behind it? What are its functionalities? And how does it operate?

Boone Ashworth: Okay, let's get into it. The collar is produced by an emerging company named Personifi AI. The quirky thing about Personifi is its spelling – it concludes with an I, which is a common trend among startups to misspell names or words intentionally. This collar marks their debut product. Their declared goal is to imbue a sense of personality into everything, which raises questions about whether they're aiming to animate animals, non-living things, or even create characters reminiscent of those in Pixar films. Their inaugural offering is a pet collar designed for both dogs and cats, and it's oddly named Shazam. The reasoning behind this choice, according to them, is the collar's purported magical capabilities, suggesting it can perform tasks in an instant. Interestingly, the name Shazam is already associated with several other entities you might be familiar with.

Lauren Goode: Indeed, it's quite a daring decision to adopt a name that Apple has secured.

Boone Ashworth: Indeed, they mentioned that when individuals look up Shazam, it appears in the search outcomes, so it makes sense to choose a name that's already familiar to people.

Michael Calore: Absolutely.

Boone Ashworth: Okay then.

Lauren Goode: Makes sense.

Michael Calore: It might as well have been named WIRED.

Boone Ashworth: Absolutely, that's correct. Essentially, the concept revolves around a collar equipped with artificial intelligence capabilities. It primarily features a microphone and a speaker, enabling it to listen and respond. The collar offers a variety of characters to choose from. You select a character for your pet, attach the collar, and then, in theory, your pet can engage in conversations with you by responding to whatever you say.

Lauren Goode: Hold on. Do you mean respond out loud?

Boone Ashworth: Affirmative.

Lauren Goode: Alright. It then converts that into text.

Boone Ashworth: Absolutely. Ever watched a film or series where creatures can converse, similar to Homeward Bound or with Salem the Cat in Sabrina the Teenage Witch? What they aim to mimic is this concept of a communicative animal. They achieve this by integrating a chatbot into the animal's collar.

Michael Calore emphasizes that unlike ChatGPT or Alexa, this isn't an AI chatbot. The responses aren't being generated on the fly.

Boone Ashworth: Indeed, it seems they are making progress. They are exploring the realm of artificial voice creation. Imagine having… There's a lot of talk about these AI chatbots that can emulate companions or even lovers, adapting in real-time. However, this technology hasn't reached that level yet. The company has pointed out to me, asking, "Really, how much can your dog communicate? What range of topics can it possibly cover?"

Lauren Goode: Provide me with sustenance.

Boone Ashworth: Precisely that.

Lauren Goode: Provide me with nourishment.

Boone Ashworth mentioned that each character is equipped with around 8,000 recorded phrases. This extensive library is the result of anticipating various scenarios—whether the dog is hungry, needs to go for a walk, feels frightened by thunderstorms, or reacts to fireworks, among other situations. The team has meticulously mapped out potential reactions and had voice actors bring these situations to life through their recordings. This approach makes the characters resemble NPCs (non-playable characters) in video games, capable of delivering context-specific lines, rather than chatbots generating responses spontaneously. However, the ultimate goal remains ambitious: to enable a future where your pet could offer commentary on real-time events, such as reacting to a football game you're watching together from the sofa. Although this level of interaction hasn't been achieved yet, it's a vision they're actively working towards.

Lauren Goode: Do these responses from the animal accurately reflect their current emotions due to data analysis, or is it more a case of randomly attributing sentences so it seems as though you're conversing with your pet?

Boone Ashworth explained that the device is designed to interpret the true feelings of pets, which might seem unpredictable at times, considering it evaluates numerous environmental elements. The inception of this project was spurred by a personal incident involving the company's CEO, whose dog suffered a rattlesnake bite and required a hospital stay of 10 days. This was a significant ordeal, primarily because the CEO was unaware of the snake bite for an extended period. The incident led to the development of an idea for a pet collar capable of identifying the specific sound of a rattlesnake's rattle, monitoring the pet's physical response to a bite, and subsequently alerting the pet owner through a notification, such as a text message on a smartphone app. This system aims to ensure that owners can react more swiftly to such emergencies.

This device is designed to detect specific environmental cues, such as the noise made by a dog consuming its meal. It has the capability to establish patterns, recognizing if the dog has a regular feeding schedule in the morning. Should it fail to detect the usual sound of feeding due to an oversight, it could activate the collar to send a reminder to feed the pet. That's the concept behind it.

Michael Calore: Alright. So, it's generating the appearance of dialogue and the semblance of a collaborative relationship.

Boone Ashworth: Indeed, it's crucial to understand that pets are unaware of the mechanics behind the technology. I'm not in a position to claim I understand the thoughts of a dog, as that's beyond anyone's ability. From the perspective of the animal, this device simply adds another voice into their environment, emanating from the collar around their neck. The gadget aims to interpret and convey the pet's intended message, but it's essentially making an educated guess without the capability to directly access the pet's thoughts. It's not about attempting to read the animal's mind; rather, it's about attempting to translate its perceived signals into something understandable at the moment.

Michael Calore: It would be beneficial to apply this to young kids as well.

Boone Ashworth: Ah, that makes sense, or adults whom you struggle to communicate with.

Lauren Goode: What's the price for this?

Boone Ashworth: The price is $595.

Lauren Goode: Excuse me?

Boone Ashworth: … pertaining to dogs. $495 applies to cats.

Lauren Goode: What makes us believe it's lesser for felines?

Boone Ashworth believes this is likely due to the smaller size of the form factor, though he—

Lauren Goode: Do they know where my cat is?

Boone Ashworth presents an argument in his narrative, suggesting that a hypothetical collar designed to interpret and verbalize a cat's thoughts might inherently cost more due to the perceived complexity of feline versus canine behavior. In preparation for his piece, Ashworth consulted with a feline behavior expert. The expert humorously posited that if such a technology were applied to cats, the primary message conveyed by the collar would likely be a constant demand to remove the device. This perspective is rooted in the understanding that cats tend to have more nuanced and particular behaviors compared to dogs, making the notion of accurately translating their thoughts into human language somewhat far-fetched.

Lauren Goode expressed, "I indeed—"

Michael Calore: Dogs are straightforward goofballs.

Lauren Goode: Indeed.

Boone Ashworth: Of course, certainly.

Lauren Goode remarked, "Dogs genuinely express their affection, constantly saying, 'I adore you. I adore you immensely.' Whether it's a stick or a ball. On the other hand, my cat seems to only demand, 'Give me more food. Feed me. Feed me.' When Katie Drummond, our editor-in-chief, came to my place during a gathering of WIRED staff, she couldn't help but notice my cat. Upon seeing him, she commented, 'What a well-fed cat you have,' which I thought was a very polite way of pointing out his plumpness. However, I must admit, I have a soft spot for a hefty ginger cat. But shifting gears, Boone, regarding this startup releasing their inaugural hardware product, how confident are you in their success? Should people be willing to invest between four to five hundred dollars in this device, especially considering it includes an integrated service?"

Boone Ashworth: Indeed.

Lauren Goode: Is its durability guaranteed?

Boone Ashworth: By the way, the service also costs an additional $295 annually.

Lauren Goode: Ah, I see.

Boone Ashworth mentioned that the initial year comes at no cost. However, to access the advanced functionality they refer to, which includes comprehensive sentiment analysis to enhance your pet's character, an additional charge is required. He shares that while he isn't currently a pet owner, his extensive experience in the past allows him to see the practicality in such features. He is particularly impressed by the safety features, such as the ability to detect rattlesnakes and the inclusion of a kidnapping alert that activates geo-tracking if the pet is unexpectedly taken. Ashworth believes these features could be genuinely beneficial. Yet, he expresses reservations about equipping his pet with a conversational AI, doubting the ability to achieve a truly authentic interaction.

The concept involves selecting from a variety of pre-designed characters to overlay onto your pet. Personally, when I've owned pets, I've always sensed that each one possesses a unique character. To superimpose an artificial identity feels akin to creating a barrier that obscures the authentic essence of the pet's individuality from the owner. I'm of the opinion that this approach does not facilitate genuine communication with a pet. It appears to be designed primarily for the amusement of the owner, providing an illusion of interaction. However, I contend that true engagement and connection with a pet is achieved by meeting them on their level, embracing their mode of communication rather than imposing our own expectations or anthropomorphizing them.

Lauren Goode: Absolutely, you've made an excellent observation. This is especially true for products infused with artificial intelligence, such as Alexa devices, or even the peculiar Humane Pin we discussed in one of our episodes.

Michael Calore: Absolutely.

Lauren Goode: … some time back. This isn't about the interaction between one living entity and another. It's about the connection between people and technology, focusing on whether this interaction enhances our lives. Moreover, there's another living entity involved, one we usually can't directly interact with, leaving us to make many assumptions. So, I hadn't truly considered it from a moral standpoint before.

Boone Ashworth: Indeed, to me, it appears to be a matter of ethics. Similar to any chatbot, there's always the risk of inaccuracies. Imagine it misinterpreting your pet's emotions or suggesting your dog possesses a personality contrary to its true nature. I believe there are more effective methods to connect with your pet, which likely don't involve conversing in human language, given that animals don't comprehend it in the way we do.

Lauren Goode: Mike, what's your opinion? Do you believe it's still appropriate for children?

Michael Calore: Actually, I don't.

Lauren Goode: I truly believed you would embrace that fully.

Michael Calore: No, I don't believe so. To me, it seems like an entertaining illusion. It gives off the vibe of a delightful sleight of hand.

Boone Ashworth: Absolutely.

Michael Calore: However, I believe it's not prepared beyond that point.

Lauren Goode: In your opinion, what would Petra's response be?

Michael Calore: The response I get from her varies based on the character I've attributed to her and the set phrases I've chosen. If she were to express a desire to communicate something to me, it would likely be, "Squeeze me," since that's my instinctive reaction whenever I lay eyes on her. Lauren is inquiring about my cat, just to clarify.

Boone Ashworth: You might believe that's what your cat is communicating to you. However, you can't be certain, can you? Even if you attempt to understand, it's unclear whether she's requesting a cuddle or preferring to be left undisturbed.

Lauren Goode: Right. Should we be keen on conversing with our devices overall? Let's temporarily ignore the pet collar, but whether it's Siri on your smartphone, the HomePod, or Google's Hub – or is it Google Home now?

Michael Calore: The device is known as the Nest Home Hub.

Lauren Goode: The Nest Home. Google, oh Google. I'll genuinely miss discussing your naming practices on the podcast. But seriously, are there instances where we'd want to engage with them outside of highly particular scenarios?

Michael Calore: That's an excellent query, and I believe we should delve into it during the latter portion.

Lauren Goode: As we have one more section left in Gadget Lab to cover.

Michael Calore: Indeed, we do. So please, take a seat, remain in place, and we will return shortly.

Lauren Goode: I noticed your actions.

[Pause]

Michael Calore: Alright. As Lauren previously pointed out, this Shazam collar falls into a category of wearable devices, or gadgets for your home pets, that support voice interaction. They're driven by artificial intelligence, either partially or entirely. This year has brought a surge in such innovations, which we've frequently discussed on our program. Let's delve into identifying the recurring patterns among these devices. Which significant examples from this year should we focus on discussing?

Boone Ashworth: Regarding the innovations I've covered, one notable invention is the Shazam collar. Additionally, I delved into a different piece about a unique type of smart eyewear. Unlike typical devices, these glasses face inwards, aiming to gauge your emotional state without any verbal interaction. A natural progression of this technology could involve understanding the emotions of those around us. Another creation I discussed is the Friend smart necklace. Designed to be worn around the neck, its core concept revolves around acting as a companion that communicates with you through text messages, reacting to the various stimuli in your surroundings and capturing the sounds around you.

It appears that a significant motivation behind the creation of various devices is the pursuit of connectivity, which manufacturers believe consumers are lacking. This could involve connecting with pets, other people, or simply fostering friendships. There's an underlying sense of isolation or disconnection that these companies aim to address, either by tapping into a new market or by offering a solution. It's unclear which perspective is more accurate, but the goal seems to be to highlight a gap in communication, emotional expression, and interaction with others, including pets, and to propose ways to enhance these experiences. The trend of seeking solutions for this perceived lack of connection is likely to persist, though it's uncertain if it will continue in the same manner, especially considering the evolution of technology beyond the so-called post-Humane, post-Rabbit r1 phase.

Lauren Goode: Without delay.

Boone Ashworth: Absolutely, indeed. The pair of releases that emerged were poorly received. However, businesses already involved in creating similar items have progressed too far in their development to halt now. As a result, these products are currently hitting the market and will continue to do so over the next year. It remains to be seen whether any will gain traction. Currently, there's a significant focus, especially in terms of social interaction, on the ways we communicate with one another.

Michael Calore: Right, are you referring to the Humane AI Pin?

Boone Ashworth: Affirmative.

Michael Calore mentioned the Rabbit r1, a somewhat pocket-sized AI assistant, which didn't gain much popularity.

Lauren Goode: Absolutely not. Additionally, Humane secured several hundred million dollars in venture capital investment and support, boasting a team with Apple engineering backgrounds.

Michael Calore: Absolutely.

Lauren Goode: … along with product managers, but it still wasn't enough … It seems like they attempted to take on too much.

Michael Calore: Indeed. The primary objection raised was, "Isn't this something that could simply be a mobile application?"

Lauren Goode: That's an interesting inquiry. To what extent should this merely exist as an application? How much of it will ultimately become just an application?

Michael Calore suggests that everything we need could simply be condensed into an app. He points out that most people already own a smartphone, which costs around a thousand dollars, and these devices are incredibly versatile. They come equipped with cameras and microphones, and users can easily manage these features. Thanks to their software-based operation, they function continuously and efficiently. When you upgrade to a newer model, you can expect all your familiar apps to perform just as well, if not better. Calore emphasizes that smartphones already fulfill our technological needs, questioning the necessity for developing new gadgets when the ultimate tool is already in our possession.

Lauren Goode questions whether engaging in conversation with our devices is something we desire, setting aside the fact that for some individuals, voice interaction is essential due to disabilities such as low vision or the inability to type. She acknowledges the advancements in voice technology that offer assistance but wonders if those who are adept at typing really need or want to use voice commands. She ponders this while humorously referring to the complexity of naming conventions in Google's smart home devices.

Michael Calore: We're talking about the Nest Home Hub.

Lauren Goode: Indeed, that device. Reflecting on the past three years, it's been a fixture in my bedroom. Primarily, I use it to check the weather and to play calming sounds of the ocean to help me sleep. That's pretty much the extent of its use. When it comes to using Siri while driving, it feels like a chore, leaving me exasperated and thinking, "Do I really have to rely on this?" Previously, I would use Siri for dictating texts, but now, I prefer to leave voice messages. So, the question arises, are we truly interested in interacting with these devices? And even if these assistants evolve to become more like "companions" that can offer additional support, is that genuinely what we desire from our technology?

Boone Ashworth: Initially, it's entertaining. Honestly, I generally avoid conversing with my gadgets. Whenever I own something that works with Alexa, I simply deactivate it because I don't… It's…

Michael Calore: Are you against having microphones inside your home?

Boone Ashworth: Absolutely.

Michael Calore: Why are you not feeling well?

Boone Ashworth: Personally, it's more convenient for me to simply take out my smartphone and enter whatever I need rather than speaking to a device. However, when I say that, I then notice individuals in the street as I'm leaving, actively engaging with their phones through voice to send messages or perform other tasks. Recently, a guest at my home almost solely relied on voice messages for communication. Clearly, this method is utilized by many, but I question the necessity of a device talking back. If I'm interacting with it verbally, I expect it to carry out a command, not to provide me with conversational feedback.

Lauren Goode: Since you embody safety and security.

Boone Ashworth: I'm not sure I agree. That seems a bit too extreme for me.

Michael Calore expresses skepticism about the current capabilities of generative AI, highlighting a significant gap between present reality and the technology's ambitious promises. He points out that while proponents of AI tout its ability to perform tasks like summoning cars, ordering food, or arranging flights, the reality of using such services involves details that are crucial for the user's decision-making process. For instance, when booking a ride through services like Uber, Lyft, or Waymo, factors such as cost, wait times, pickup locations, and journey durations are essential information that users want to be aware of and consider in their decisions. Calore emphasizes his desire to remain directly involved in these aspects of service selection, indicating a reluctance to delegate these tasks to AI chatbots due to the importance of these details in the overall experience.

The primary function of the gadget seems to be, "Sure, you can just take it out and command, 'Get me a car,' and a car will indeed arrive." However, that's not exactly what I'm looking for. It's similar when it comes to reserving a flight for me. It'll probably select a departure at 6:30 AM with a stopover in a place like Salt Lake, which is not what I desire.

Lauren Goode: Honestly, who's looking forward to a stopover in Salt Lake?

Michael Calore: Utah's fine residents.

Boone Ashworth: A nod to Salt Lake.

Lauren Goode: Once, I failed to catch a flight in Salt Lake City, leading to an overnight stay at a hotel near the airport. That experience alone could fill an entire podcast episode. It ties back to previous discussions I've had in WIRED articles. As much as I dislike admitting it, the concept and-

Michael Calore: Right now, she has her hands placed on her hips.

Lauren Goode: Absolutely. Right now, I'm adopting a Wonder Woman pose, and interestingly, this isn't a play on words with the name Personifi. It's about how the internet has always touted the benefit of a tailored experience, yet it hasn't fully delivered on that promise of being truly individualized, which I believe is accurate.

I must admit, I'm really fascinated by the innovation we're witnessing. Mike, we've been immersed in the tech scene for quite some time now. Reflecting on the previous era of internet and gadgets, my mind goes to the rise of startups like Dropcam. It evolved into Nest before becoming part of Google's ecosystem, yet it still retains its identity to some degree, as we've noted. Dropcam's journey to success is noteworthy. Similarly, Eero comes to mind as another startup that achieved significant success and was eventually acquired by Amazon. Then there's Pebble, which, despite not being a financial hit, found its way to Fitbit, and subsequently, Fitbit was acquired by Google.

In the past, there was an exciting wave of innovation with hardware entrepreneurs mapping out the future of product development in their fields, which was quite remarkable. However, the landscape seems to have shifted. Nowadays, it appears that only established giants like Apple, Google, Amazon, or even Snap, known for its Spectacles experiments, have the capacity to drive such innovation. The conversation around Meta further underscores this point. It seems now that only those with deep financial reserves, running into billions, can truly make an impact.

Michael Calore: Absolutely.

Lauren Goode: And maintain a research and development facility to create anything that seems like it might make a difference.

Boone Ashworth: Absolutely. I'm genuinely supportive of the unconventional ideas. It might come across as though I'm a bit skeptical or find it odd, but please, continue exploring them. Perhaps we won't adopt your wearable invention, or it might transform into an application, but why not experiment? Let's see what develops. It's likely that something will eventually catch on, and who knows, that could become the next big thing. Will it be the dog collar? I'm uncertain about that, but don't stop experimenting.

Michael Calore believes that smart glasses hold a certain advantage in this context.

Boone Ashworth: Absolutely.

Michael Calore: Essentially, for the reasons Lauren mentioned. They're being produced by Meta, correct?

Boone Ashworth: Affirmative.

Michael Calore: They are supported by one of the world's leading technology corporations.

Lauren Goode mentioned that they are prepared to allocate $4 to $5 billion each quarter towards these initiatives.

Michael Calore: However, when it comes to a seamless hands-free experience, it's fairly impressive, right?

Lauren Goode: Indeed.

Michael Calore emphasizes that irrespective of one's opinions on Meta or their stance on Ray-Ban Wayfarers, if one has an interest in technology devices, then the concept of smart glasses should capture their interest.

Lauren Goode: Absolutely.

Boone Ashworth: Additionally-

Lauren Goode: It seems like there's a current shift in focus within the broader tech sector, moving our attention toward infrastructure elements again. For roughly the last ten years, there was a significant emphasis on edge devices, those being the gadgets that operate at the cloud's periphery, like our laptops and… what do you call them? Smartphones, exactly. Devices we use personally. But now, the question has become about the availability of GPUs for businesses.

Michael Calore: Absolutely.

Lauren Goode inquires about the locations of new data center constructions and asks which companies are progressing in battery technology.

Michael Calore: Are you collaborating with an existing AI platform for handling all the interactions, or are you creating a proprietary one?

Lauren Goode introduces a topic regarding utilities, suggesting it will dominate the tech hardware discussions in the coming ten years. She notes that while there will be plenty of innovative attempts in personal gadgets, standing out in that space will be a significant challenge. Thus, she poses a query to both guests: What kind of software functionality would prompt you to update your personal tech? What features or capabilities would convince you to invest in the latest iPhone or smart speaker?

Boone Ashworth: Tidy up my outfits. Wash my garments.

Lauren Goode: Is this a piece of software?

Boone Ashworth: Indeed, they possess one. They are equipped with a robot for laundry tasks. Absolutely.

Lauren Goode: Is it still around?

Boone Ashworth: Well, I'm not sure.

Lauren Goode: It seems we encounter that during CES and then—

Michael Calore: It lasted for twelve months.

Boone Ashworth: Handle my dishwashing. What I'm really seeking are these mundane, everyday chores. I've had enough of gadgets playing tunes or creating artwork, you know? Can it just prepare a sandwich for me instead?

Lauren Goode: Indeed, there's a popular meme circulating online which essentially says, "I desire AI to handle certain tasks to allow me the freedom to create art. I'm not interested in AI producing art if it means I'm left to do chores such as laundry or washing dishes." This is a rough summary, but it seems to echo your sentiment.

Boone Ashworth: Sort of. Well, it's not really software, per se. I'm pondering over a genuine software update that would truly captivate me. Perhaps a version that could manage all my emails and politely inform others, "Not at this moment."

Lauren Goode: That's a reasonable point.

Boone Ashworth: With courtesy, as I'm struggling to manage that.

Michael Calore: Absolutely, I agree with that.

Lauren Goode: Absolutely, handling emails.

Michael Calore: I like that.

Lauren Goode: Achieving an empty inbox.

Boone Ashworth: Absolutely. Just clear my inbox for me.

Lauren Goode: What would their spelling be?

Boone Ashworth: Achieving an empty inbox.

Lauren Goode: I-N-B. Ah, that was clever.

Boone Ashworth: Inbox Zero.

Lauren Goode: How about your thoughts, Mike?

Michael Calore: My fascination with phones persists, leading me to conclude that the main issues with them include the camera and the battery life. These aspects, when significantly enhanced, prompt a desire to upgrade. Presently, the performance of these features is largely governed by software, though this is more true for cameras than for batteries. However, advancements in battery technology and in optical and sensor design have been substantial. It's ultimately the software that elevates the camera usage experience and optimizes how long a battery can last.

The only compelling reason for me to consider upgrading my phone would be significant improvements in software that enhance the device's overall functionality. However, this stance feels somewhat weak since each new phone model typically offers incremental improvements in battery life and camera quality. These enhancements are generally the result of minor software adjustments and slight upgrades in hardware components. Therefore, when it comes down to it, I'm uncertain. There isn't a specific feature lacking in my current phone that would drive me to upgrade.

Lauren Goode: Indeed, there isn't a generative AI chatbot claiming to provide human-like reasoning that could convince you to update your phone.

Michael Calore: Not really. I use Gemini on my Pixel, which is pre-installed, and it does the job well. It's an improvement over the previous Google Assistant. So, it's satisfactory. Honestly, none of these features strike me as revolutionary enough to compel me to switch or upgrade specifically for them.

Lauren Goode: That's a reasonable point.

Michael Calore: What's your opinion?

Lauren Goode: Indeed, my sentiments align with yours. Specifically, my concurrence is more in line with Boone's viewpoint regarding the allure of enhanced inbox and calendar organization as a decisive factor for upgrading. This is a feature I prioritize highly.

Michael Calore: Absolutely, indeed. You've implemented numerous automatic reply systems to inform others when you're swamped with emails and anticipate a delay in responding, which I find quite commendable.

Lauren Goode: The other day, Boone responded to my automated reply. What was your message?

Boone Ashworth: That's something I've experienced a few times.

Lauren Goode: Indeed. Because it currently states, "At this moment, I'll be replying only to the most urgent emails."

Boone Ashworth: Absolutely. I mentioned that I'll be replying solely to the most essential automated responses.

Michael Calore: Additionally, Lauren, I appreciate that you now keep it activated constantly.

Lauren Goode: Sure, why not?

Boone Ashworth: Any reason why not?

Lauren Goode: Indeed, I make it a point to reply immediately to those who matter most. Katie and Brian, for instance, always receive prompt responses from me. I assure them, "I've got this." But yes, managing emails and schedules is part of it. However, echoing what you mentioned, Mike, "I'm actually content with it." The application of AI in healthcare and wellness excites me. I've recently been experimenting with the latest Apple Watch for a couple of weeks. Regular listeners of our program will know I'm usually partial to Garmin, having stuck with the same model for years. Yet, when Apple released a new version featuring enhanced swimming capabilities and offered it to me on loan, I thought, "Why not give it a try?"

Monitoring sleep quality has significantly improved. This morning, it informed me that out of the last 14 days, I've experienced decent sleep on 11 occasions.

Boone Ashworth: Envious.

Lauren Goode: I've decided to try the sleep feature… Given that I usually struggle with sleeping, this is great news for me. I'm now using the sleep apnea monitoring feature, which, after a month, should provide me with some insights. The device's ability to track activities has improved, offering more detailed information. It now includes cycle tracking, which is quite effective. From time to time, I also make use of its voice assistant for various tasks, and it works adequately, as you mentioned.

Michael Calore: Does Apple Intelligence drive the entire system?

Lauren Goode: Absolutely. Well, no, not at this moment, mainly because I'm unsure about the timeline for its arrival on the Watch. That's an interesting inquiry. Plus, I haven't gotten my hands on the iPhone 16 Pro which comes equipped with all those features.

Michael Calore: It's time for an upgrade.

Lauren Goode: Absolutely. However, the real question remains, do I actually need to? And if I decide to, it means I'll simply be funneling additional funds into the pockets of an established player in the industry.

Michael Calore: It's fair to say that should you decide to purchase the latest iPhone, there's a good chance you'll find the updated camera to be a slight improvement over its predecessor.

Lauren Goode: Absolutely. Is that conclusion drawn from 15 years of previous experience?

Boone Ashworth: So, this was the climax the entire episode was leading up to. It turns out, it was sponsored content from the beginning.

Michael Calore: Absolutely, absolutely. We'll take a short pause and then return, following a word from Tim Cook. No, but seriously, we need to conclude this segment and take a breather before we return for our final recommendation segment of all time.

Lauren Goode: Wow, I can't believe it.

Michael Calore: Astonishing.

Lauren Goode: Are you saying that our upcoming program will lack a section for suggestions?

Michael Calore: Likely not, though it remains uncertain.

Lauren Goode: Indeed.

Boone Ashworth: It seems like you all have it all worked out.

I'm sorry,

Michael Calore: Alright, we're back. This is it, the final segment of our final episode. Boone, our respected producer and this week's guest, let's hear your recommendation.

Boone Ashworth: It dawned on me that I needed to make a suggestion as I was arriving today.

Michael Calore: Ah, it's because the producer failed to send you an email mentioning that you're supposed to come up with a suggestion.

Boone Ashworth: Oh, I completely slipped my mind that it's something you folks do around here. And, you know, I'd like to put in a good word for rain. It caught me during a drive as I was coming into San Francisco, and we had this gentle rain for the first time in quite a while. It reminded me how much I actually enjoy rain. It seems to me that rain has been getting a lot of negative press, and it's about time we change that narrative. People tend to feel gloomy when the sky is overcast and it's drizzling, but it can be quite pleasant, really. I'm talking about a light sprinkle, not a downpour. We're all aware of the issues heavy rain can cause, and I'm mindful of that. What I mean is a slight mist. There's no need to make a big fuss about it. Instead, see it as a chance to pause for a moment, put on a jacket, open your umbrella, maybe even share your umbrella with someone else, and make the most of your day. Enjoy…

Michael Calore: Regardless of the rain.

Michael Calore: Revel in the scent of rain.

Boone Ashworth: Indeed.

Lauren Goode: And Boone, you also have firsthand experience with the devastating effects of wildfires.

Boone Ashworth: Absolutely, that's correct. Indeed. I reside in San Francisco's misty zone where the atmosphere is consistently damp and sprinkling, yet I still find pleasure in a nice rainfall.

Michael Calore: That's an excellent final suggestion.

Lauren Goode: I agree. I'm truly happy that we managed to surpass Gilad's suggestion of lemon slices-

Michael Calore: Chopped citrus.

Lauren Goode: …amidst Boone's downpour.

Boone Ashworth: Initially, my plan was to suggest a TV series or a cool new device. But then I thought, why not just appreciate the outdoors? Don't be selective about the weather. Embrace it all.

Michael Calore: No need to fret. I've got your back. I'll be suggesting a show and/or a device.

Boone Ashworth: Alright, go ahead.

Michael Calore: Hold on. Before I share mine, we need to hear Lauren's, because as the host, I have the privilege of going last.

Lauren Goode: In a similar vein, my suggestion is… I aimed for something profound but fell a bit short. Thus, the first piece of advice I'd give is to take walks. We're such nerds.

Boone Ashworth: Amidst the rainfall. Amidst the rainfall. Yes.

Lauren Goode encourages embracing the elements, suggesting that if one has the capability and a secure area to do so, they should opt for walks outdoors. Emphasize walking without the distraction of your smartphone. Make it a routine to walk at various times of the day, whether it's in the morning, with a companion, or after meals, which is believed to be beneficial health-wise. To minimize distractions, consider switching your phone to airplane mode and pre-downloading any podcasts for entertainment during your stroll. Furthermore, Lauren advises staying tuned to their channel for upcoming content, mentioning that a teaser for their new podcast will be released next week, followed by the premiere episode the week after. Although initially jesting it's titled "HBO’s Silicon Valley," she clarifies it's something along those lines.

Michael Calore: The name is Alveoto.

Lauren Goode: Everything is unfolding. So, definitely, take a leisurely stroll. Give yourself a moment to relax. It's incredibly beneficial for both your body and mind if you're able to do it, and give our latest program a listen. I'd be delighted if you could.

Michael Calore suggests considering requesting Siri to manage your incoming calls.

Lauren Goode: Absolutely. She'd say, "Apologies, but there's nobody by the name of Paul in your contact list."

Michael Calore: Indeed.

Lauren Goode: Mike, what do you suggest?

Michael Calore: Unlike the poetic and existential suggestions you guys just made, I'm going to suggest a YouTube channel instead.

Lauren Goode: Apologies, I just…

Michael Calore mentions that there's an excellent YouTube channel belonging to KEXP, highlighting that KEXP itself is a radio station.

Lauren Goode: K-E-X-P. What's the right way to say that? It seems like the name of a new company.

Michael Calore: It's said as K-E-X-P. That's a radio station for you. The letters are its official call sign. Honestly, it stands for experience.

Lauren Goode: Ah, I see.

Michael Calore: Originating from Seattle, they've expanded their presence to the Bay Area, rapidly becoming a dominant force in West Coast media. When musical groups make their way through Seattle during tours, they often have the chance to perform live at the KEXP studio. These performances are not only aired live by KEXP but are also made available through video on their YouTube channel a few weeks later. This has quickly become one of my top methods for finding new artists in indie rock, hip hop, and world music genres on the KEXP video feed on YouTube.

To address your curious glances, let me share with you a few names of musical acts that have recently featured on the KEXP YouTube channel. Among them are Quivers and Angelica Garcia, as well as a group known as Lo Moon, spelled L-O Moon. There's also Jjuu Jjuu, spelled J-J-U-U J-J-U-U, presented in uppercase as a single term. Additionally, we have Las Nubes, Shannon & the Clams, the East Bay Zone, J.R.C.J, and ML Buch. Out of these, Shannon & the Clams is the only one I'm familiar with. I haven't encountered the others before, but I'm excited to dive into their videos. I'm certain at least one will stand out as exceptional.

Lauren Goode: How do you manage to fit this into your schedule?

Michael Calore: Really? Just for viewing three-minute live acts on YouTube?

Lauren Goode: Yet an array of them includes lesser-known groups that extend beyond the already unfamiliar bands you're aware of.

Michael Calore: On a Sunday evening, I'll dedicate about 45 minutes to quickly go through several of them. If something really grabs my attention, I'll settle in and take pleasure in watching it.

Lauren Goode: Astonishing.

Michael Calore: Indeed.

Lauren Goode: It feels quite similar to taking a stroll under the rainfall, doesn't it?

Michael Calore: It feels just like taking a stroll under the rain showers.

Lauren Goode: Absolutely. Despite your earlier claim that your suggestion would lack a poetic or existential nature, I believe it indeed carries a significant amount of both.

Michael Calore: Alright, sounds good.

Lauren Goode: This is a quality choice.

Michael Calore: Thank you. I'm really happy to hear you're satisfied.

Lauren Goode: What are your thoughts on this being your final suggestion?

Michael Calore: I'm okay with it. What's your take on it being my final suggestion?

Lauren Goode: Indeed, we've reached the show's conclusion, and I'm feeling alright.

Boone Ashworth: I'll remove it. No need to stress.

Michael Calore: Oh, I appreciate it. Thanks a lot.

Lauren Goode: Boone truly deserves our appreciation for his incredible efforts. Throughout the duration of the pandemic, he has not only been the backbone of our show's production but has also consistently guided us week after week. He's tolerated our studio shenanigans, navigated the challenges of including guests remotely, and managed the myriad of technical difficulties. Moreover, despite having accumulated countless recordings of our voices, he's never once misused them to fabricate AI-generated versions of us uttering unsavory things—a testament to his integrity and restraint. This is precisely the reason we're showering him with kindness today.

Boone Ashworth: I've decided to create a personalized podcast featuring the two of you, which I'll enjoy privately, almost like having my own version of Gadget Lab. Reflecting on it, that sounds quite eerie.

Michael Calore: Intensely. Intensely.

Boone Ashworth: Refrain from proceeding. Normally, this would be the moment where I'd suggest concluding the episode. However, I'll deviate from that route. Rather, I'll highlight two additional suggestions: Lauren Goode and Michael Calore.

Michael Calore: Oh, dear.

Boone Ashworth: Collaborating with all of you and taking part in this podcast for such a significant period has been a wonderful experience. You're among the most intelligent and warm-hearted individuals I've ever met, a combination that's quite rare. Thus, I'll genuinely miss our weekly sessions together in the studio. Nevertheless, I'm relieved that we'll continue sharing the same workspace. It means a lot to me that I can still have you in my life and look forward to tuning into the show moving forward, as I'm certain it will continue to be fantastic. I'm eager to see what the future holds. So, my heartfelt thanks to each one of you for everything.

Michael Calore: Great, thank you for that.

Lauren Goode: That's really touching.

Michael Calore: Boone, I appreciate all you’ve done. Thanks for steering the Gadget Lab so capably for all these years.

Boone Ashworth: Seizing the chance to playfully tease you once more, I've put together a brief compilation of outtakes from the mishaps that have taken place on Gadget Lab.

Lauren Goode: Oh dear.

Boone Ashworth: It hasn't been broadcasted yet.

Lauren Goode: My words came out prematurely.

Boone Ashworth: However, I hastily assembled it at the break of dawn today.

Michael Calore: Oh, dear.

Boone Ashworth: Now presenting to you.

Michael Calore: Oh, dear.

Boone Ashworth: They might ask me to remove this, but what's the plan? Remove me from the program?

Lauren Goode: Exercising his authority.

Boone Ashworth: So, here we are.

[The sound of various clips from previous Gadget Lab episodes fills the air, underscored by the signature Gadget Lab melody.]

Lauren Goode: Greetings. Hi. Welcome, everyone.

Michael Calore: Okay. Hello, Boone. How are you? The time is 11:21 PM. It's Wednesday, January 4. I'm in a good mood.

Lauren Goode: Alright. Excellent transition.

Michael Calore: And we're off in three, two, one.

Lauren Goode: And we're off in three, two, one.

Michael Calore: Regarding Lauren.

Lauren Goode: Michael, I'll refer to you as Mike. I just realized I sounded like your mother.

Michael Calore: Absolutely not.

Lauren Goode: Alright. Alright.

Michael Calore: Excellent, you're capturing everything.

Lauren Goode: Regrettably, I consumed yogurt this morning, which turned out to be a poor choice.

Michael Calore: Absolutely, because at this point, you've consumed a lot of dairy. Your vocal cords are completely coated with dairy.

Lauren Goode: Oh, is it my turn? Counting down, three, two, one.

Michael Calore: It encompasses quite a bit. Boone, my volume hasn't decreased at all.

Boone Ashworth: Yes, indeed.

Lauren Goode: Alright, let's get started.

Michael Calore: And it's live. You know what? Absolutely a breeze.

Lauren Goode: Individuals possessing scrotums. Should it be scrotums or scroti?

Michael Calore believes the subject in question pertains to scrotums.

Lauren Goode: I appreciate it.

Boone Ashworth: There's been a homicide.

Lauren Goode: It's a massacre of spheres! Feel free to edit that part out.

Michael Calore: Sleep well.

Amanda Hoover: The spelling of 'hungover' is slightly incorrect.

Michael Calore: Yes, but exclude the letter 'E'.

Amanda Hoover: Indeed.

Lauren Goode: What's the incorrect way to spell "hungover"?

Michael Calore: Omitting the letter E.

Lauren Goode: In terms of brand identity, Hungovr.

Michael Calore: In one instance, as the show concluded, I simply exclaimed, "Nut cheeses." And then there were five—

Lauren Goode: That was overlooked by her.

Michael Calore: … a brief pause, followed by it picking up my voice once more as I mentioned, "Nut cheeses."

Lauren Goode: That's a fabrication.

Michael Calore: No, it wasn't my invention.

Boone Ashworth: It's quite odd.

Lauren Goode: That's the blooper, Boone. Incredible. Truly enjoyed that.

Michael Calore: Absolutely, yes.

Lauren Goode: Absolutely.

[End of recording.]

Michael Calore: Oh, that's really kind. Appreciate it.

Lauren Goode: What was the reason I mentioned… I won't repeat the term since he's…

Boone Ashworth: Indeed, we devoted an entire episode to discussing it.

Lauren Goode: Ah, alongside Zak Jason.

Boone Ashworth mentioned that Zak Jason joined the conversation.

Lauren Goode: Wow, I can't believe it.

Michael Calore: Indeed. The spray for balls was quite amusing.

Lauren Goode: Along with cashew-based dairy alternatives.

Boone Ashworth: Dive into the archives, everyone. There are some real gems hidden away.

Michael Calore: Astonishing.

Lauren Goode: Incredible. How often did I let a swear word slip and then say, "Boone, please remove that." That must have happened quite a bit.

Boone Ashworth: I certainly wouldn't remove that.

Michael Calore: Which episode is this? Number 662. It seems you've done this 662 times already.

Wow, that's incredible. I appreciate it.

Lauren Goode: Thanks, Boone. Your support means a lot to us.

Boone Ashworth: Ah, did someone's device activate just as you were speaking?

Michael Calore: Affirmative.

Lauren Goode: Discussing Slack.

Michael Calore:: Yes, because we're extending our duration.

Lauren Goode: Absolutely.

Boone Ashworth: Lovely. Alright.

Lauren Goode: There's another recording available.

Boone Ashworth: Okay, got it.

Michael Calore: Farewell. That concludes our program. We're grateful to Boone for joining us today. And a special thanks to Boone, our producer.

Boone Ashworth: I appreciate it, everyone.

Michael Calore: For any comments or suggestions, reach out to us on social platforms. The details are in the show notes. We'll return in two weeks with a fresh episode.

Lauren Goode: We're returning shortly.

[Outro theme music from Gadget Lab fades in]

Michael Calore: Cheese alternatives made from nuts.

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